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Stevie Mc
Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2012
Posts: 27
Location: Joplin, MO
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 Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 12:52 pm Post subject: 71 Squareback. Need engine advice |
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Just picked up a 71 squareback. 41,000 original miles. Its been sitting for 20yrs in a field in Kansas. The guy i picked it up from bought it in Germany while he was in the military and brought it back to the states with him. I am now the 2nd owner.
My current idea is something leaning toward a ole rusty rod look. I am not going to go through and spend the $$ to fix all the rust at this point. It has FI. The tank is rusted, injectors appear to be shot, injector wiring harness has been chewed by the mice. I feel comfortable repairing the harness. Fuel pump was locked down, I think I have it freed up and it may work. Will post pics soon.
I am torn as to what to do with the motor. Do i spend the money on the FI, or do i go off and hang some carbs on it. My goal is to have something I can take the family out to dinner on Friday night and head to the drag strip for dessert. Would like to get it in the 13s-15s 1/4 mile. I dont know if that is possible with FI or type 3 for that matter. Due to the amount of rust, I am not concerned about keeping the original FI.
Looking for some suggestions to put some horsepower to this rust bucket.
Thanks in advance. |
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mxracer
Samba Member
Joined: April 09, 2011
Posts: 568
Location: NC
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:31 am Post subject: |
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That power/times are not gonna happen with stock FI.  If you did a custom FI like MS with correctly sized injectors you could get there easy. That is with a bigger engine that is... the stock 1600 isn't gonna get there.
You'll need to build something over 2 liters to get where you want to be or build something smaller and put a turbo on it.
I'd suggest heading over to the Performance Engine/Trans forum and reading a while, there's tons of info there that will apply to your situation. |
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blankmange
Type 3 Darksider
Joined: July 17, 2004
Posts: 11498
Location: Bloßer Stahl-preapocalyptic MidCoast
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:00 am Post subject: |
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welcome aboard, Stevie...
post up some pictures of your new square - midCoast Type 3's are kinda rare out here....
as far as the engine/FI goes - you'll probably want to see how bad it is to begin with, then assess how much you want to spend on it...
getting a fat-assed Type 3 down the strip in that amount of time is going to be expensive....
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póg mo thóin
Certified DHS Technician
Samba Member # 24517 |
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Stevie Mc
Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2012
Posts: 27
Location: Joplin, MO
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:09 am Post subject: pic |
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Sounds like I will need to lower my expectations on the 1/4 mile for now.
Are there any good writes ups about converting to carbs? |
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blankmange
Type 3 Darksider
Joined: July 17, 2004
Posts: 11498
Location: Bloßer Stahl-preapocalyptic MidCoast
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:46 am Post subject: Re: pic |
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| Stevie Mc wrote: |
Are there any good writes ups about converting to carbs? |
hopefully the pans are in better shape than the topside....
best bet for carbs may be to source a set of stock PDSIT's, with all the attendant bits, from the classifieds here...
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póg mo thóin
Certified DHS Technician
Samba Member # 24517 |
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Max Welton
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2003
Posts: 11037
Location: Black Forest, CO
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JSMskater
Samba Grease Gorilla
Joined: February 01, 2006
Posts: 5362
Location: Murrieta California
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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If you're getting rid of your FI stuff, PM me and I'll buy all of it.
_________________
71 Squareback-FI -- 73 Bay (subaru powered)
TOOB Member #3
I make D-jet FI connectors |
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blankmange
Type 3 Darksider
Joined: July 17, 2004
Posts: 11498
Location: Bloßer Stahl-preapocalyptic MidCoast
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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| JSMskater wrote: |
| If you're getting rid of your FI stuff, PM me and I'll buy all of it. |
I'm surprised it took you that long....
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póg mo thóin
Certified DHS Technician
Samba Member # 24517 |
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71 Typ 3
Samba Member
Joined: May 11, 2009
Posts: 1241
Location: Shepherdstown, WV
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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| blankmange wrote: |
| JSMskater wrote: |
| If you're getting rid of your FI stuff, PM me and I'll buy all of it. |
I'm surprised it took you that long.... |
Haha, right! I expected the second post to tell him how the FI is the best thing and then tell him if he wants to sell it someone would take it. I am surprised Tram has not made his presence felt as well.
I have to agree, if you want those times, stock will not get you there. However, the stock FI is well worth having on the type 3's. There is alot of talent and information here to get you though what ever work you want to do to it.
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Chris W
65' type 1 Convertible |
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luckystiff
Samba Member
Joined: September 28, 2005
Posts: 2252
Location: hickory,nc
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Max Welton wrote: |
Given how rusty that car looks top-side, I would make sure it is still sound structurally before putting anything into it.
Max |
looks like beautiful surface patina and very little visable structurally rusted. that thing needs a wash down with clr and a coupla coats of clear thrown on it.
and yeah 2litre and up to start thinking about your time goals...ken....
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ITMC
Secret Service |
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Max Welton
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2003
Posts: 11037
Location: Black Forest, CO
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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There's nothing structural even showing in the picture, so I guess "very little visable structurally rusted." would be technically correct.
And then there's this:
| Quote: |
| Its been sitting for 20yrs in a field in Kansas. |
So yeah, I question the condition of the frame-head, front beam, rear sub-frame, front brake rotors, rear drum and backing plates, the pan and the heater-channels. Basically everything on the bottom of the car.
Max
_________________
1967 Type-3 Fastback
Under the Knife https://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=151582
Home Stretch https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=767836 |
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Stevie Mc
Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2012
Posts: 27
Location: Joplin, MO
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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| 71 Typ 3 wrote: |
| blankmange wrote: |
| JSMskater wrote: |
| If you're getting rid of your FI stuff, PM me and I'll buy all of it. |
I'm surprised it took you that long.... |
Haha, right! I expected the second post to tell him how the FI is the best thing and then tell him if he wants to sell it someone would take it. I am surprised Tram has not made his presence felt as well.
I have to agree, if you want those times, stock will not get you there. However, the stock FI is well worth having on the type 3's. There is alot of talent and information here to get you though what ever work you want to do to it. |
I would love to get this thing rolling one way or another to start. The horsepower can come a while later or possibly a different carcus.
Will get some pics of the underside later this week so i can get some educated opinions about whether or not its worth spending the time and money.
So here is where I am at. The type 3 bentley manual should be here in the next couple of days. Meanwhile I have taken out the gas tank and worked through cleaning that out with chains, yet to rinse with muratic acid. Pulled the fuel pump apart, it was all gummed up. Got it broke free and clean but the seals dont act like they are going to work. Blew through the fuel lines and pulled the injectors to test. Put a syringe on the injector and connected to the can of carb cleaner, put 12v to it and it squirts, not sure if that means its good, but I think 3 of the 4 are good. Open to suggestions for replacemen. Also possible replacement of fuel pump unless there is any easy fix.
I appreciate the support and am excited as hell to get this thing on the road. It may be a while...... |
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JSMskater
Samba Grease Gorilla
Joined: February 01, 2006
Posts: 5362
Location: Murrieta California
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| Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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| blankmange wrote: |
| JSMskater wrote: |
| If you're getting rid of your FI stuff, PM me and I'll buy all of it. |
I'm surprised it took you that long.... |
 better late than never!
_________________
71 Squareback-FI -- 73 Bay (subaru powered)
TOOB Member #3
I make D-jet FI connectors |
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Stevie Mc
Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2012
Posts: 27
Location: Joplin, MO
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| Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 4:28 am Post subject: How bad is it? |
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Here are some shots of the underside and bulk head. Would like some opinions on how bad this is. Is it worth turning into a hoodride?
I got it running last night with the E2000 fuel pump setup. I need to figure out the wiring the mice chewed up on the MAF. The last photo shows what i have. Its 4 wires that i need to figure out what order they go into the MAF plug. |
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Mike Fisher
Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006
Posts: 18042
Location: Eugene, OR
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| Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 4:58 am Post subject: |
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If you buy/install a set of new 1/2 pans from Gerson/Klassic Fab ($600) you can have it back on the road structurally sound. Masterseries silver/black is good for all your undercarriage/suspension. Replace all the original woven cloth covered fuel lines as they will have pin hole leaks in them!
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https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey |
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Stevie Mc
Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2012
Posts: 27
Location: Joplin, MO
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| Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:04 pm Post subject: Pans are shot no doubt |
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I got this car on the road. Gotta say I love the FI at this point since its working right. I was suprised when i went out and started it today it was about 45 degrees out and it fired no problem. I will update some pics this weekend.
Still wanting to upgrade the engine a bit. From what I am reading the stock FI can handle up to 1776 kit. Whats the best 1776 kit? What options can go with the 1776 kit? Cam? Springs? Heads? Head work for stockers? Exhuast? Not concerned with stock heater boxes. Lifters? Hoping to use the stock crank and rods, but open to suggestions here also. Would love to see multiple 'recipes' suggested.
I am looking for the most outta the stock FI without converting to carbs. Gotta love the change in my tune here.
Thanks in advance. |
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Max Welton
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2003
Posts: 11037
Location: Black Forest, CO
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 23362
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Max Welton wrote: |
45º isn't cold. Just sayin.
Max |
No it isn't. That's supposed to be our high temp for tomarrow. 
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Sqrbckguy38
Samba Member
Joined: December 21, 2004
Posts: 415
Location: Tooele, ut
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| Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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hell 45 here in utah and people are wearin shorts! im from calli, anything below 70 is cold for me. if you can, stick with the f/i, its alot of fun. my 70 was injected and did have an 1835 with such mild work, and it ran perfect on it, just chimin that little bit in.
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It's not the fall that hurts, it's the sudden stop at the bottom.
69 Square needs love, even after 15 years
70 Fasty former dd, now my daughter's
67 Beetle, Opal |
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Stevie Mc
Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2012
Posts: 27
Location: Joplin, MO
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| Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:07 am Post subject: |
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| Sqrbckguy38 wrote: |
| hell 45 here in utah and people are wearin shorts! im from calli, anything below 70 is cold for me. if you can, stick with the f/i, its alot of fun. my 70 was injected and did have an 1835 with such mild work, and it ran perfect on it, just chimin that little bit in. |
Will you elaborate on 'mild work'? Lookin for suggestions re specific parts.
I am thinking maybe a mild cam and some port and polish to the stock heads. Throw in some HD springs. Not really sure if different lifters will help or hurt.
Really looking at aircooed.net 1800 unmachined build and hoping the stock FI can handle it. I have email into them and waiting to hear back. |
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