How to know it’s time time for a tranny rebuild?

[WillRB]

1984 Westy 2WD w/ a 99 Subaru 2.2.

With winter coming I am starting to wonder if it might be time to consider sending my transaxle out for a preventative rebuild. I have had the van for a couple of years with zero maintenance history from the previous owner (bought it out of a field). The odometer read ~150k, but there is a chance of intermittent function of the odometer, meaning mileage could be higher. I have put 12-15k miles over the last year or so including two trips across the country. In general I think I am pretty gentle on it.

I have changed the fluid twice both times the oil and magnet seemed to look clean. I haven’t had any issues with it to this point. No popping out of gear or wierd sounds. I do notice that the shifter will move sometimes on quicker accels oe decels. Not sure if that indicates anything.

Are there any signs that I can look out for that might indicate general wear/ getting close to end of life? For all I know the transmission was rebuilt at some point by the PO or it could have 200k miles on it. I understand that this might be something that could be difficult to provide input on my specific tranny from behind a screen, but was hoping to get some insights on some things to look for.

Like most, after reading about potential wait times on rebuilds, I would rather tackle it during winter if deemed necessary. Also given that I do still intend to take it on long trips, pulling a transmission in my driveway vs. the road seems more ideal.

Appreciate any advice/input folks might have.

-Will
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1984 Vanagon Westfalia w/ Subaru Conversion (99 Legacy 2.2 Phase II) 2WD 4speed 4.57 R/P (.828 straight cut 4th) GT TBD

[Sodo]

[dobryan]

A simple answer. Yes, rebuild it now.

The trans is in the later stages of it's useful life and a preventative rebuild by a skilled rebuilder will give it much more life than running it into the ground and then rebuilding it.

You kinda knew that by asking the question you did. Good on you for recognizing that it is time and doing it when it is convenient for you rather than an emergency on a trip a year or two from now.
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Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2010 Subaru EJ25 (Vanaru) and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

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[WillRB]

[Muftobration]

[dobryan]

[E1]

Bottom line, if you can afford it and the lever’s moving too much, then it might be time.

I had Arizona Transaxle do our first van’s, and then Mr. Gas — both mounted to stock Wasserboxers.

If we only used our van from time to time, I’d personally have waited a little longer on the second build. If it shifts great, makes no obvious noises, has a clean magnet, and the case isn’t hot, I do trust the factory boxes and parts.

Our first van had no transmission work that all POs knew of, the original owner babied that van to over 200,000 miles, it had roughly 300-350,000 miles when rebuilt. Builder assured me it was pretty worn out, but without the 3rd gear whine I’d have still run it.

I like to spread specialist work around sometimes, and in the latter case we were nearby when hearing the dreaded 3rd gear whine — and had previously spoken with Greg (Edit: of Mr. Gas) enough to really like his style. He’s also into road racing as are we, and I’m a firm believer that there’s durability tricks learned in racing that make for better street products.

I changed ring and pinion sizes on both, from 4.83 to 5.43, to get more bottom-end across the board but especially on rough dirt and rocks — but these were Wasserboxers.

We changed 4th on both, to be slightly down in revs from stock, and needing to from changing the R&P size. We wanted a new 3rd in the second van, partly to bridge 2nd to 4th a little better, but if doing it again would use the stock-sized 3rd for more climbing power.

Paul Guard Gears all the way for us, not only a good guy but also cut his teeth in racing. Literally.

Peloquins added to both boxes, so have nearly seven years of daily experience there. Invaluable, though in some situations it’s easier to get stuck *much quicker*, especially in deep gravel in washes, and in mud. I have almost no experience with snow and Peloquins, though.

I highly recommend both Greg Sayers at Mr. Gas, and Bill Capatch at Arizona Transaxle. Both are very competent, and both have much respect for their customers.
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"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere." — Colin Chapman

AI has spoken to further illiteracy, to steal, to cheat, and to replace humans

’84 “Westfailure”/2.1 Digijet/5.43 Ring & Pinion/Peloquin/D-rated BFG KO2s

[skills@eurocarsplus]

here's the deal at the end of 2023

it for sure isn't going to get any cheaper than today to build it. prices are rising, sometimes weekly sometimes monthly.

ALL the good guys are backed up. would you rather be down for 8 weeks now, or 8 weeks in April/May when it decides to explode?

I recently had a "customer" call me with a Vanagon request some major work and told me "It must be done by March 1st"

I literally laughed right in his ear hole. I told him I could start this afternoon and given lead times...he'd be lucky to see it by June.

Point being...now more than ever classic car guys (not just us) have to REALLY plan our 'break downs' to have stuff going again in a reasonable amount of time.

I have done this a long time now.... rebuilders have 2 seasons:

Fall/winter when people actually do maintenance.

Springtime when every asshole that knew their shit blew up in the fall and it magically didn't fix itself over the winter...and they need it done yesterday.

Don't be the springtime guy
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[Corwyn]

I contacted Matt Steedle and being the best, he is seriously backlogged. My trans is being rebuilt in Seattle.
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'90 White Westy ("White Lightning")
FAS Gen V 2.0
The Annual Baja Rally
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=604813&highlight=baja

"If anything's" gonna happen, it's gonna happen out there"
~ Captain Ron ~

[16CVs]

If it’s unknown and you want many more stress free trips then have it freshened up. At a minimum they put new bearings and and oiling plates or they find it was ready to grenade.
Money well spent in my opinion. I would think that a move shift lever could also be a bad front engine mount. Had a broken front mount in my Beetle that would tilt forward when you accelerated.
I advocate using the closest rebuilder to you so that you can drop it off and possibly go and see the beast when it’s apart.
I had the box in my 2WD Westy rebuilt with no major problems while running and with shipping and rebuild it was $3400.00. This is not a place to be cheap.
Let us know how it turns out.

Stacy hi
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1987 Syncro Westfalia Triple knob (bastard)
1989 Syncro Tristar Triple knob "Swedish"
2013 Jetta Hybrid a true "Zwitter"
Samba member # 14980
Call anytime number 650 722 4914 .
Keep Your van running and upkept tastefully for the love of the hobby.
Don't let your van end up in an "abortions" thread.

[MarkWard]

Clean magnet, no obvious noise or vibrations? CV boots all good? No leaks, clutch is good, why not continue to use it?

This is not a guarantee, but look at where the case sections meet including the bell housing. The factory used thin paper gaskets between the sections. If you see any silicone type sealant at any of the section seams, that would indicate that someone has been into it it before.

[PJ Snow]

The extra HP of the Subaru motor’s definitely stress the transaxle.
Mine blew up just before the Eisenhower tunnel on I70 in Colorado. I drove 6900 miles and 128 miles from home it blew up. It was very noisy the last 1500 miles of the trip and I knew if it made it home I was pulling it for a rebuild. Mr Gas lives 1 hour from me and I have met him and seen him around so it was a no brainer. He did a great job and 4-5 week turn around. I went with a taller R&P instead of swapping gears. I also added a LSD.
I finally got my van all back together and have a bad rod knock. So I have put zero miles on the transaxle.
The joys of owning a Vanagon….
If you have the cash get it done. Mr Gas, as I am sure others, will add the oiling plates and make sure it is dialed for the extra Subaru power.
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1980 Riviera EJ25 swapped
1986 Tinny EJ22 swapped

[Love My Westy]

My '86 2.1 wbx has 172,000 miles on it and I had read here that the 3/4 slider may go out between after 150,000 miles. While I have always nursed my tranny, after I hit 150k I was saving to get the tranny refreshed. This summer, I
pulled the tranny, put it on the front of my truck and delivered it to German Transaxle in Bend, OR. on my way to visit relatives for the summer. I picked it up at the end of August and delivered it to my mechanic to re-install it Sept. 12th. Ken at GTA told me that at my milage they all have things that are worn or have microscopic cracks, especially if you are pushing larger engines. There are things you need to add to the rebuild for higher hp engines. I am content to run my stock motor so I didn't want to pay the extra $ to have it built for a Subie or other motor.

It is running great and shifting very well as long as I push the clutch in as far as I should. I think I got a little lazy with the old clutch as it didn't engage so close to the floor as it does now.

Yes, I would recomend doing it now if you have the time and money. [/s]

[Sodo]

[zerotofifty]

I am at about 230K miles on my 1986 original tranny. Still works. Have been using red line synthetic oil in it since about 160K miles or so. prior it was standard gear lube.
Fingers be crossed. My motor is a 2.2 wasser boxer (over sized pistons) since 155k miles.

With the subaru massive power your mileage may vary.
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Sorry About That Chief.

Give Peace a Chance.

Words to live by.

[MarkWard]

I was thinking about this when I couldn’t sleep. This idea does not address the 3/4 hub, but if the suspicion the large main bearing was shifting or worn, in theory you could lower the trans disconnecting the mount. Remove the mount and remove the rear cover. I bet there is room. You would see tell tale signs that the wimpy main bearing retainer that also supports reverse idler has allowed the bearing to shift in the housing. You’d see the tell tail damage on the front case cover too. You could disassemble enough to remove the mainshaft bearing, replace with a new one, install the Weddle heavy duty retainer, machining the cover to accommodate the new retainer. It would require a puller that could grab the inner race. This might get you another season or two.

Disclaimer: this is all hypothetical and I may have missed a step in my thinking. Just a possibility or a brain exercise for me.

[?Waldo?]

[Sodo]

I’m trying to develop test procedures to evaluate Vanagon gearbox condition.
Cuz I know they’re 35 years old and the chickens are coming home to roost (etc)
Anyway I’m happy to get some feedback. Its seldom. Need others to test & report.

You could be correct on a 2wd.
But on my syncro with a new gearbox (16,028 miles) even “jerky accel/decel” the shifter doesn’t move at all, in any gear.
Syncro has different mounting, the front mount is wider, like a hammerhead shark to support against the driveshaft torque.
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'90 Westy EJ25, NEW oil rings (!) 2Peloquins, 3knobs, SyncroShop pressure-oiled pinion-bearing & GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox.
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered original gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb

[WillRB]

Does anyone have the general dimensions pf the transaxle? With bellhousing still on. I can measure after i find time to get mine dropped, but figured if I ended up near a walmart I could see what cheap coolers were available. Thanks.
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1984 Vanagon Westfalia w/ Subaru Conversion (99 Legacy 2.2 Phase II) 2WD 4speed 4.57 R/P (.828 straight cut 4th) GT TBD

[steve244]

It'll fit in a 27 gallon plastic box. Weighs in at 100 lbs. This is an 82 AC type 91 on the way to the Rancho tranny spa in Fullerton. UPS picked it up. Easy peasy.

It's about 31 inches 26 inches nose cone bolts to the end of the input shaft. I loosened the bracket for the clutch slave so it doesn't stick up. Bell housing just fit under the cover.
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82 AC vanagon approx 200K miles (3K are mine).
DD is a 2015 Leaf
Road Trip to Hell (FL 2023)
The Vanagon's drivetrain and chassis restomod thread. Best sung to the tune of I Did It My Way...