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mph1970
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Joined: February 23, 2007
Posts: 122
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 Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2024 2:03 pm Post subject: Won't start...hopefully simple |
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| I just bought a 1964 Bug that's been sitting for years. 6V. Turns over by hand. Put in a new battery. Only turns barely once then stops. When I crank by hand, it is very tight. Any suggestions? Thanks. |
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my59
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Joined: August 13, 2003
Posts: 3796
Location: connecting the dots
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| Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2024 2:19 pm Post subject: Re: Won't start...hopefully simple |
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Pull the plugs, squirt a teaspoon of oil in each cylinder, rotate by hand to get oil spread around. The lack of compression will make it easier to spin.
Does it have oil in it? Once the cylinders are oiled up, crank it with the coil disconnected till the oil light goes out.
Then put the plugs back in.
You know the gas will be nasty, so you might think about emptying the tank, and use a gas can with a tube to the fuel pump inlet to see if it fires up.
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my59: Well son, my grandfather died before I got to drive it, so does that answer your question?
our79: sunroof bus w/camper interior and 2.0 FI
Other:'12 Jetta, '77 Benz 300D, and a 74 MG Midget. |
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mph1970
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Joined: February 23, 2007
Posts: 122
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| Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2024 2:36 pm Post subject: Re: Won't start...hopefully simple |
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| Copy. Will do that. I replaced all the fuel lines. No gas was left in it prior to storage. Could the starter be an issue? |
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my59
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Joined: August 13, 2003
Posts: 3796
Location: connecting the dots
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| Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2024 3:46 pm Post subject: Re: Won't start...hopefully simple |
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It won't rotate 360 degrees and more?
I'd take the valve covers off, look to see if all the pushrods are where they should be, and turn the engine to see where it stops at.
Removing the rockers to free the valves and remove pushrods(keep em organized as to where they came out so you can put em back where they came from) might be next step.
There might be a reason it was parked.
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my59: Well son, my grandfather died before I got to drive it, so does that answer your question?
our79: sunroof bus w/camper interior and 2.0 FI
Other:'12 Jetta, '77 Benz 300D, and a 74 MG Midget. |
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mph1970
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Joined: February 23, 2007
Posts: 122
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| Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2024 3:51 pm Post subject: Re: Won't start...hopefully simple |
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| It rotates the full 360. It seems to be free at one point then very tight at another point. The engine was supposedly rebuilt years ago. Again...supposedly. I tried the plugs, oil, as you suggested with no change. |
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Eric&Barb
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Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24770
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2024 3:56 pm Post subject: Re: Won't start...hopefully simple |
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Post an image of the battery cables at the battery.
Engine getting tight could be the compression of each cylinder. No compression means no burn in the cylinders.
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mph1970
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Joined: February 23, 2007
Posts: 122
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| Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2024 4:18 pm Post subject: Re: Won't start...hopefully simple |
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Eric&Barb
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Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24770
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2024 4:54 pm Post subject: Re: Won't start...hopefully simple |
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OK, those do not look too bad. Did you clean the insides of the clamps for good connections there? Did you clean between the ground cable and the body? FYI that grommet on the positive cable needs to be replaced ASAP. If left like it is the positive cable insulation will get worn thru by the metal edge of the hole and short out there, possible to result in fire and even battery explosion. CYA and clean the positive cable where it bolts to the starter solenoid. Also invest in a tube of dielectric grease to use on connections you clean up and tighten back down. Dielectric grease will keep water and oxygen from getting into connections, so as to keep the connections without voltage drops.
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Eric&Barb
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Joined: September 19, 2004
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Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2024 5:00 pm Post subject: Re: Won't start...hopefully simple |
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Did you make sure the battery is fully charged up? Just because it is new, does not mean it does not need a charge.
If all of that does not do the trick, then time to pull the starter to go thru it and its bushings.
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Dkwautounion
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Joined: July 31, 2017
Posts: 178
Location: Socal
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| Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2024 5:01 pm Post subject: Re: Won't start...hopefully simple |
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Make sure all the grounds are and connections on the starter are really clean. Wire brush them. A car sitting that long is probably due for some cleaning
Slow hard crank could be timing to advanced i think. Starter could be tired. |
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klroger
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Joined: September 22, 2017
Posts: 151
Location: deep river, Ottawa Valley
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| Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 3:28 am Post subject: Re: Won't start...hopefully simple |
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Also make sure the ground strap between the pan & transaxle is in good shape. Mine was really corroded when I started going over the electrical...
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I Didn't know what to do, So I Didn't do anything!!!! |
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wdfifteen
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Joined: January 26, 2019
Posts: 530
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 6:26 am Post subject: Re: Won't start...hopefully simple |
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| mph1970 wrote: |
| Could the starter be an issue? |
Possibly, but don't "start" there. (See what I did there?) You've been given great advice here so far.
Too many people attack a problem by throwing parts at it first thing.
Another possibility is the starter bushing. If it's really worn it can cause the starter armature to drag. If all the suggestions here fail, you should pull the starter and remove the starter bushing from the bell housing. If it's worn, replace it with a new one (they're cheap), reinstall the starter, and try again.
But please follow the suggestions here. These are some smart guys. |
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Eric&Barb
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Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24770
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 8:26 am Post subject: Re: Won't start...hopefully simple |
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[quote="wdfifteen"]
| mph1970 wrote: |
Another possibility is the starter bushing. If it's really worn it can cause the starter armature to drag. If all the suggestions here fail, you should pull the starter and remove the starter bushing from the bell housing. If it's worn, replace it with a new one (they're cheap), reinstall the starter, and try again.
But please follow the suggestions here. These are some smart guys. |
Do remember that there is also a bushing in the FRONT of the starter that will wear. When either bushing gets too worn the armature inside the starter will lean over and grind inside the field coils. That will remove insulation and allow the electrical flow to short out. Just before that shorting out happens the starter will turn the engine slower due to the drag.
While starter is out for maintenance, good time to shine up the surfaces wear the starter and transaxle mate together, and dielectric grease those surfaces for a good ground. Do same between the starter solenoid and the starter body to get another good ground there..
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wdfifteen
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Joined: January 26, 2019
Posts: 530
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 10:36 am Post subject: Re: Won't start...hopefully simple |
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| Eric&Barb wrote: |
While starter is out for maintenance, good time to shine up the surfaces wear the starter and transaxle mate together, and dielectric grease those surfaces for a good ground. |
Nooo! You want conductive grease, not dielectric grease. Dielectric grease is used as an insulator and you want good conductivity between the starter and the transmission.
https://youtu.be/fL1BMKKcvYY?si=6SZrDLLLkCvv7t11 |
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Eric&Barb
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Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24770
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 11:26 am Post subject: Re: Won't start...hopefully simple |
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| wdfifteen wrote: |
| Nooo! You want conductive grease, not dielectric grease. Dielectric grease is used as an insulator and you want good conductivity between the starter and the transmission. |
Fortunately the big metal parts of the VW bolted will cut thru the dielectric grease and make a good contact. VW in the workshop manual states to use a sealant between starter and transaxle.
VW used a clear non-conductive grease in the headlight and other dash switches. Where if one used a conductive grease, that would cause voltage to pass from one side to the other even when the switch was in the off position.
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Eric&Barb
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Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 11:34 am Post subject: Re: Won't start...hopefully simple |
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Here is a good video about some of the myths about dielectric grease. #2 covers the electrical flow.
Link
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Eric&Barb
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Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24770
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 11:54 am Post subject: Re: Won't start...hopefully simple |
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Here is another video from Newgate Simms showing a multi pin connector that if one used conductive grease would just short out everything. Solution dielectric grease.
Link
About Newgate Simms on their website: https://shop.newgatesimms.com/about-us/
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Eric&Barb
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Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24770
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 12:02 pm Post subject: Re: Won't start...hopefully simple |
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This quoted from 3M website:
| Quote: |
| "Dielectric grease for electronic equipment, ignition systems, and electrical terminals." and "Bulb bases: Tail lights, turn lights, marker lights, stop lights, convenience lights, trailer lights." |
3M website page about the dielectric grease:
https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/p/d/b40070802/
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Q-Dog
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iowegian 
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Joined: February 16, 2005
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Location: Somewhere between Dubuque and Keokuk
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| Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2024 4:32 am Post subject: Re: Won't start...hopefully simple |
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| Q-Dog wrote: |
| Did the starter turn the engine over while the plugs were out? |
How could that make any difference?------this thread is all about the joys of dielectric grease. (or is it bipolar geese?) |
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