Cool heads but hot oil temps.

[storm]

As the title says. Built a 2110 for a ‘57 Single Cab straight axle, transmission 4.12x .89 4th.
Engine spec: 82 crank,90.5 p&c, Fk 41 cam w/cb 1to 4 rockers, cb magaspark distributor, duel Weber’s IDF 40 with 28 vents, idle jets 50, not running main stacks only idles.
Head temps 270 degrees, oil temperature 225 verify with candy thermometer.
78 degree temp day going 35-40 miles per hour in 3third and sometimes 4th in a hilly area.
Doghouse fan and all tin present. Hover bit on cooler.
Also full flow with oil filter and external oil cooler w/fan 30mm oil pump.
IGN timing started w/ 32, 30, 28 no change.
Did stomp on gas pedal to see if engine pinning, nothing noted.
Thought it could be starving for air, because the original engine was a 36 horse. Droves vehicle with rear lid off, no change.
Engine lid is bent on the bottom with a 2 inch gap to the body gasket.
Did put a plastic cover over the engine opening to seal- no change, but oil temp got hotter.
Went up on idle jets to 52,no change. Spark plugs light tan.
Have built many engine this size down to 2 liter and had no problems like this.
I know that oil temps are directly to heads, but with a head temp of 270 degrees where else can be the cause.
I know there has to be reason for these oil temps.
I like to be around 180 to 210 for oil temp and oil pressure 34-40 pounds using 10W40 oil.
Waiting for your comments please.
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always ready to learn and give advice

[Brian_e]

If you are running good oil, 225 is not hot at all. I trust my oil, and I have done 235-240 for hours on end in 106deg heat and a headwind.

My '57 single cab seems to make engines run hot as well. Take them out, install in a different vehicle, and they are fine. Early single cabs have the smallest air inlet amount of any of the buses. I think this plays a huge roll when you install a big CC engine.

Brian
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[b-man]

With a single cab you do have the option of pulling cool air from the treasure chest door louvers, at least on a later one like my ‘66. You can cut openings in the 2 removable panels (or space them out at the top) that isolate the fuel tank from the cargo area and then you can pull additional cooling air from those treasure chest door louvers.

The firewall behind the engine is ventilated with large openings so once you cut some louvers or openings in those panels the cooling fan can draw additional cooling air from the treasure chest. Except Brian’s shawty with no treasure chest doors to speak of.

All split buses suffer from lack of engine cooling but I suppose early single cabs more so than others.
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1956 Dove Blue Panel
1966 Velvet Green Single Cab
1957 L41 Black Oval Window Beetle

[vwracerdave]

225*F oil temps are normal and safe and won't hurt anything.

DO NOT confuse normal 180* water temps of a water cooled engine with normal oil temps. They are 2 completely different fluids.

No way your heads are 270*F normal is 350-375*F.
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2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK

[richparker]

I agree with above, 225° is perfect.

Where is your oil temp sender located and what is the temp of the oil coming out of the external cooler? In my bus set up my sender is located in the T3 block off plate and the oil comes out of the cooler 30° cooler then the gauge says.

In my beetle, the sender is machined into the deep sump. Which produces much different temps then my bus.
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’71 Westy build
Adventure thread
’65 Deluxe Build
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[Zed999]

"Not running main stacks, only idles"
Hmmm...

[richierich]

...
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Blah.....

[Zed999]

Head temps look ok for running on idles. Mine get this low at low speed, he's not ever putting any power through the engine without mains but likely running lean trying to keep the speed up feathering the throttle or whatever. Oil temp will get up to running temp eventually, as it has.

All this temp talk seems a bit pointless without the mains though.

[storm]

Storm back, thanx for responses. Definitely seems a fresh air issue. b man, between the gas tank and engine bay there is no opening. I would have to take the gas tank out before adding louvers.
Rich Parker, temp is measured at oil bypass valve by crank pulley. I could put the sensor at the flywheel side which would be cooler temperature from the doghouse cooler, but I wanted to what the temp was draining from the heads first.
Zeed999, mains were left out so I can get the idle jet size and check spark plug color. Running a 50 idle jet with the mains in now.

When driving no popping and performance is good up to 55 mph.
Vw racerdave temp is to low your right. I don’t have IR gauge to measure temps, would have to borrow one to verify temp.
Why this temp is important to me is I have other buses that have temps of 190-200 in 90 degree weather. I just feel more comfortable with lower temps, but this time I have a old SC that used a 36 horse motor with less louvers to cool.
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always ready to learn and give advice

[RickS]

[chrisflstf]

Assuming oil temp measured is correct, not really any choices for raising it, other than drive faster. My new 1776 runs about 190 in city, 210 on fwy. About 80f outside. Thats measured where it goes back in the case from the full flowed filter.

[b-man]

[Brian_e]

[b-man]

[storm]

Storm here, we’ll I took the Single Cab out for another drive but this time I left the rear hatch off. An experiment to test air consumption needed.
I tested the head temp guage in hot water an it’s off 15 degrees on the Low side. So head temps are wrong. Either the carbs or the cooling fan are in completing with each other.
With the engine latch off there was more improvement of oil temps.
I now know that my situation is the lack of cool air. Thanks to the responses I received, very helpful.
Solution is to open the area between the rear of the treasure chest and engine firewall.
_________________
always ready to learn and give advice

[Brian_e]

[94touring]

On my early bus vent paneling, I've had good luck with these. Run them during the summer. You can tell the engine bay is cooler when you open the deck lid.

https://www.justkampers.com/earz-engine-bay-air-intake-vw-t2-split-1964-1967.html


They make them for baywindows too, but not sure how effective they'll be in comparison.

[74 Thing]

I did this test in my Thing about getting enough air into the engine compartment.

Go to your local hardware store and purchase 20 or so feet of small 1/4" nylon tubing. Secure one end in the engine compartment and run the hose out the air vents and into a side window and up to the passenger seat. Take a small water bottle and slit the top and put the other end of the nylon tube in there. If water is sucked upwards into the tube when the engine is on then you need more air.

You may have to modify the engine tin that goes over the trans or do something with the decklid, but if the carbs are taking the air then the fan is not getting enough and visa versa.

[chrisflstf]

In a consumption race between carbs and the fan, who is going to get the majority of air available?

Or is it simply split?

[vwracerdave]

Back in the 80's & 90's when Gene Berg was still popular lots of folks ran vent scoops on the side of their early Busses to help engine cooling. Today you rarely see them. Berg also noted the engine on a Bus ran a lot hotter when the side windows were rolled down because it disrupted airflow to the rear engine vents. I don't remember exactly the reason but running a roof rack also effects engine temps. It's time we go back 30-40 years and revisit some of the long lost common practices.

On a Bug the old Herrod Helper is another long lost secret that needs to make a comeback.
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2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK