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sinclair
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Joined: July 01, 2004
Posts: 435
Location: New Forest UK
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 Posted: Wed May 14, 2025 9:12 am Post subject: Military 1952 Standard |
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I was lucky enough to discover another military car this week. The giveaway is always the M003 code (Ignition delete on the dash pod and column mounted switch) Generally very solid and original, however the bonnet is 1960's and the engine mid 53. that could well have been replaced early on under military ownership, I think they had a hard life. I wait to see what the birth certificate says, but my first impression of the green paint under the very fetching satin blue, is that it's olive, rather than the mid bronze green of the BAoR cars. Imported to the UK from Belgium in the early 90's and on the scene back then before quietly disappearing again, its military origins were unknown. It has some secrets to give up yet. Which I'll of course post here, as its a great resource.
Had my first drive in the sunshine today.
Last edited by sinclair on Thu May 15, 2025 2:04 am; edited 1 time in total |
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[email protected]
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Joined: June 24, 2015
Posts: 827
Location: Rialto. CA
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| Posted: Wed May 14, 2025 7:49 pm Post subject: Re: Military 1952 Standard |
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Nice ...do you happen to know the paint code# of this dark blue color anyone ???
Last edited by [email protected] on Wed May 14, 2025 9:42 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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virtanen
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Joined: January 08, 2006
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Location: Finland
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sinclair
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Joined: July 01, 2004
Posts: 435
Location: New Forest UK
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| Posted: Wed May 14, 2025 11:46 pm Post subject: Re: Military 1952 Standard |
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| [email protected] wrote: |
| Nice ...do you happen to know the paint code# of this dark blue color anyone ??? |
I would say it’s trying to be L37 mid blue. But it's more like a Luftwaffe blue, not a full gloss. Very close to an outfit I built a few years ago.
Last edited by sinclair on Sun May 18, 2025 12:14 pm; edited 4 times in total |
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sinclair
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Joined: July 01, 2004
Posts: 435
Location: New Forest UK
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| Posted: Wed May 14, 2025 11:52 pm Post subject: Re: Military 1952 Standard |
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| virtanen wrote: |
| And I'm interested in the OLIVE color code. |
Me too Mika. now I have two 50's military cars with two different olive colours rather than the bronze green I was expecting. interestingly they both came out of Belgium. |
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TRS63
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Joined: December 17, 2017
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Location: Stuttgart - Germany
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the dominator
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Joined: March 18, 2016
Posts: 126
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2025 2:22 am Post subject: Re: Military 1952 Standard |
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| sinclair wrote: |
| virtanen wrote: |
| And I'm interested in the OLIVE color code. |
Me too Mika. now I have two 50's military cars with two different olive colours rather than the bronze green I was expecting. interestingly they both came out of Belgium. |
Very cool car, however I would not determine the color based on a decklid, since this part could be easily swapped over the years as they have a tendency to rot out at the bottom......
I would be more interesting to look for area's in the body for original paint.
Maybe remove some of the blue paint under the backseat and see which color is hiding under it.........
_________________
52 Zwitter standard ragtop, parts hunting
67 T2A candywaxred en chestnutbrown
1988 T3 doka synco 2.1WBX |
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sinclair
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Joined: July 01, 2004
Posts: 435
Location: New Forest UK
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| Posted: Sun May 18, 2025 12:02 pm Post subject: Re: Military 1952 Standard |
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| the dominator wrote: |
| sinclair wrote: |
| virtanen wrote: |
| And I'm interested in the OLIVE color code. |
Me too Mika. now I have two 50's military cars with two different olive colours rather than the bronze green I was expecting. interestingly they both came out of Belgium. |
Very cool car, however I would not determine the color based on a decklid, since this part could be easily swapped over the years as they have a tendency to rot out at the bottom......
I would be more interesting to look for area's in the body for original paint.
Maybe remove some of the blue paint under the backseat and see which color is hiding under it......... |
Thanks. Oh it's everywhere, here's a bit of inner wing. Definitely olive and nothing darker underneath.
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wagen19
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Joined: November 16, 2007
Posts: 543
Location: germany
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| Posted: Sun May 18, 2025 2:56 pm Post subject: Re: Military 1952 Standard |
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| sinclair wrote: |
| the dominator wrote: |
| sinclair wrote: |
| virtanen wrote: |
| And I'm interested in the OLIVE color code. |
Me too Mika. now I have two 50's military cars with two different olive colours rather than the bronze green I was expecting. interestingly they both came out of Belgium. |
Very cool car, however I would not determine the color based on a decklid, since this part could be easily swapped over the years as they have a tendency to rot out at the bottom......
I would be more interesting to look for area's in the body for original paint.
Maybe remove some of the blue paint under the backseat and see which color is hiding under it......... |
Thanks. Oh it's everywhere, here's a bit of inner wing. Definitely olive and nothing darker underneath.
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There is a birth certificate of a June 52 type 11 E for British Army painted in L 13 middle green. What about that paint code? That car has also M 003.
Later there was also a rather similar L 344 riedgruen for type 111. Sorry not knowing the translation of riedgruen. |
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sinclair
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Posts: 435
Location: New Forest UK
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2025 1:09 am Post subject: Re: Military 1952 Standard |
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[quote="wagen19"]
L344 Reed green is the translation.
Yes I've seen a few descriptions of the military green on birth certificates, but none correct. They seem to pick the closest sounding. Middle green being closest to the Medium Bronze Green used on the BAoR cars. This is very different. |
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Two Glove Boxes
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wagen19
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Joined: November 16, 2007
Posts: 543
Location: germany
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2025 12:05 am Post subject: Re: Military 1952 Standard |
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[quote="sinclair"]
| wagen19 wrote: |
L344 Reed green is the translation.
Yes I've seen a few descriptions of the military green on birth certificates, but none correct. They seem to pick the closest sounding. Middle green being closest to the Medium Bronze Green used on the BAoR cars. This is very different. |
Is it possible, that the new military cars were painted still longer with nitro cellulose paint in factory, instead of synthetic resin and therefore not so shiny, if not freshly polished for "sunday"?
(suggest to make test, what kind of paint is that "olive" color)
(beside synthetic resin paint, nitro paint was also availabe as spare part for a longer time)
What about the REME Museum? What do they know about the kind of paint and the original code of colors, the cars were painted in factory?
What kind of spare books for that military cars existed? Who had them?
All colors, paints are believed to have been available as a spare part for a repair paint job, that days.
Imo, there were many cars painted in just that color.
For me, I still have no exact information about colors between 1938 and mid 1949. (but Pidoll Book including some RAL numbers)
At least after mid 1949 the RAL numbers disappeared in VW literature. So from that time on, there must be most probably a VW related paint formula and "L - number", or a clear piece of information.
In that days, till end of 1952 the color name was "L - number" + with only two digts.
So paint book suggests the following two digit green-grey tones:
Only a few of them are crearly related neither to standard, export, type 14 A, type 15 models.
It seems, not all colors and numbers really existed, but the follwing paints are listed as spares, all in 1 kg, 100 gr, L and LKL:
("L" means nitro cellulose, "LKL" means synthetic resin, air drying)
L 11 pastellgreen (Export)
L 12 ???
L 13 medium green (?)
L 14 mignonette (15, ?)
L 15 dark green (15, ?)
L 16 light green (rims, ?)
L 17 fashion green (?)
L 18 ???
L 19 atlantic green
(L 20 ?)
So I guess, one tone of them is expected to be correct for military cars after mid 1949 and to the end of 1952.
Last edited by wagen19 on Tue May 20, 2025 7:39 am; edited 1 time in total |
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sinclair
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Location: New Forest UK
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2025 6:16 am Post subject: Re: Military 1952 Standard |
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Good call. I’m only 40 miles away so popped in. Curator may be able to help. 
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virtanen
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Location: Finland
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wagen19
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Posts: 543
Location: germany
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2025 7:35 am Post subject: Re: Military 1952 Standard |
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| sinclair wrote: |
Good call. I’m only 40 miles away so popped in. Curator may be able to help.
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In 2010 I was there, but at old location in Arborfield. That time the JLT 47 was on display. My target was to visit the grave of Major Ivan Hirst at Delph.
Mika´s car: imo that color is not far away of L 11, but, L 13 I don´t know for sure. The color in heater silencer looks more olive, than on fire wall, imo. Nitro or more shiny synthetic resin? |
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virtanen
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Location: Finland
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wagen19
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Posts: 543
Location: germany
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2025 9:58 pm Post subject: Re: Military 1952 Standard |
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| virtanen wrote: |
| It's shiny, and flash light makes it look different. And it's Typ 10/11A standard. |
We can hope, the color of car is listed in birth certificate, when it arrives.
Mystic green colors mid 49 to late 52. My info about the early 2-digit green tones is from 56 spare book. In 52 and earlier books I´ve seen no info about colors and paint for spares.
What about a 54 spare book?
For me, up to now, there are some questions, as:
a) L 13 medium green, was there a relation to civilian standards? Relation to other types or parts (Exports, 14 A, 15, bus, rims?)
b) L 17 fashion green: never seen or heard about that color and up to now, have zero info about any relation to cars or parts (but was available as spare in 1956)
c) L 12 and L 18: did these colors with unknown names exist and were deleted as spare before 1956? Who has more info about?
Can someone create a post with pics from paint books for L 11 to L 19?
What is known about the color of primer on cars mid 49 to end of 52?
The color of primer may change the look of the same paint on top.
(my Feb 42 kubel is red-brown primed, my 9´49 Standard "Wagen 19", grey) |
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virtanen
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Two Glove Boxes
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sinclair
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Posts: 435
Location: New Forest UK
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| Posted: Thu May 22, 2025 6:20 am Post subject: Re: Military 1952 Standard |
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The REME museum were unable to help unfortunately and have suggested the National Archives at Kew.
I'd say yours was 223 Middle Bronze Green Mika, but hard to tell from photos. I think you might be right in trying to match the BS chart. |
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