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Ossipon
Samba Member
Joined: May 12, 2021
Posts: 634
Location: KS
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 Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2025 1:56 pm Post subject: Substandard rebuilt starters on the market (especially 6V) |
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This is more of a whine about 6V starters on the market. I am ready to just buy the cheapest as there seems to be no difference in rebuild quality.
So, my second starter went belly-up this weekend. Two different ones in the past 5 years. I have tried to do the correct install process, new bushing, clean terminals, etc. The first one had a bad solenoid after 3 years. (It was a true Bosch rebuild) This one two years old, the solenoid now works occasionally.(Generic rebuilt)
So, i order a new starter. Get it in the car and........... Nothing. Pull it and reinstall the prior one. It works. I bench test new starter. (DOA) Sending it back.
Next one I get will be an AC-Delco rebuild. Who knows. All I want is a starter motor that works.
I can find 12V starters easily. I have been delaying upgrading to 12V just because of the bits needed beyond the alternator. This may force me to it.
_________________
Ossipon
--Two truths in life: Volkswagens Rust and everything will die at some point --
VWs in my life:
Air
Type 1 - 59, 62, 63, 71 Super 68 KGhia/ Type 2 - 59 Single Cab / Type 3 - 64 Notch
Water
GTI 83, Jetta 81, 85, 87, 91 TDI, 98 TDI, 09 / New Beetle 99 / SportWagen 05, 13 / Tiguan 18 / T3 92 /Taos 24... And don't about me and my experiences with my Dasher and Quantum |
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Erik G
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2002
Posts: 13578
Location: Tejas!
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| Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2025 4:18 pm Post subject: Re: Substandard rebuilt starters on the market (especially 6V) |
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Have you changed out the bushing? This is important.
For what it's worth, the type 3 starter was originally stronger than a bug/bus starter.
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Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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Ossipon
Samba Member
Joined: May 12, 2021
Posts: 634
Location: KS
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| Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2025 7:58 pm Post subject: Re: Substandard rebuilt starters on the market (especially 6V) |
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| Ossipon wrote: |
| ... I have tried to do the correct install process, new bushing, clean terminals, etc. ... |
Yep, as said, I replaced the bushings each time with the one provided with the starter.
In regards to Type III starters being stronger, did not know that. Just wish they were as easy to find as the vast numbers of just rebuilds.
_________________
Ossipon
--Two truths in life: Volkswagens Rust and everything will die at some point --
VWs in my life:
Air
Type 1 - 59, 62, 63, 71 Super 68 KGhia/ Type 2 - 59 Single Cab / Type 3 - 64 Notch
Water
GTI 83, Jetta 81, 85, 87, 91 TDI, 98 TDI, 09 / New Beetle 99 / SportWagen 05, 13 / Tiguan 18 / T3 92 /Taos 24... And don't about me and my experiences with my Dasher and Quantum |
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sctbrd
Samba Member
Joined: May 06, 2013
Posts: 305
Location: Moravia, Czech Republic
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| Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2025 9:53 pm Post subject: Re: Substandard rebuilt starters on the market (especially 6V) |
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I had the same issue when I tried AutoZone - they only had rebuilt type 1 starters, and they were too weak for the compression.
Type 3 starters are 0.6 Hp where Type 1 are 0.5 Hp.
I went with a Samba classified instead, but 6 volt T3 starters are tough to find. |
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VWporscheGT3
Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2006
Posts: 2192
Location: Gardnerville, NV
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| Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2025 10:11 am Post subject: Re: Substandard rebuilt starters on the market (especially 6V) |
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Im curious as to the rating of the automatic starters... I have been running automatic starters for a while on my manual fastback, they seem to give more grunt and are self supported they dont need to rely on a bushing in the trans housing.
_________________
If you have any questions about Forged ICON 4032 VW pistons just shoot me a line. |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 23521
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2025 1:43 pm Post subject: Re: Substandard rebuilt starters on the market (especially 6V) |
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| VWporscheGT3 wrote: |
| Im curious as to the rating of the automatic starters... I have been running automatic starters for a while on my manual fastback, they seem to give more grunt and are self supported they dont need to rely on a bushing in the trans housing. |
They do. I think they are .8hp or more. However, they are NOT available in 6 volt.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Erik G
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2002
Posts: 13578
Location: Tejas!
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| Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2025 9:33 pm Post subject: Re: Substandard rebuilt starters on the market (especially 6V) |
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they actually did have a self supporting 6v starter (saxomat precurser to the auto) but also .5hp and rare. a 356 starter is perfect, but P prices...
I went and looked at progressive refinements to get the deets - but it looks to me that I was wrong, all starters changed in Jan 63 from .5 to .6? bug bus ghia and type 3 because it's not specified?
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Last edited by Erik G on Tue Oct 07, 2025 3:49 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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VWporscheGT3
Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2006
Posts: 2192
Location: Gardnerville, NV
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| Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2025 9:12 am Post subject: Re: Substandard rebuilt starters on the market (especially 6V) |
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| Bobnotch wrote: |
| VWporscheGT3 wrote: |
| Im curious as to the rating of the automatic starters... I have been running automatic starters for a while on my manual fastback, they seem to give more grunt and are self supported they dont need to rely on a bushing in the trans housing. |
They do. I think they are .8hp or more. However, they are NOT available in 6 volt. |
eeeeeeew 6 volt 
_________________
If you have any questions about Forged ICON 4032 VW pistons just shoot me a line. |
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Ossipon
Samba Member
Joined: May 12, 2021
Posts: 634
Location: KS
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| Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2025 4:57 pm Post subject: Re: Substandard rebuilt starters on the market (especially 6V) |
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| VWporscheGT3 wrote: |
eeeeeeew 6 volt |
I know, I know. There are some of us who torture ourselves for no reason in staying at 6 volt. But there we are.
It is situations like this that make me spend the money and time for the needed parts. I think the biggest issue stopping me is not the alternator or even starter replacement. It is the correct mounting and then the Fan housing change. If I could keep the existing housing, I think I would take the step now.
_________________
Ossipon
--Two truths in life: Volkswagens Rust and everything will die at some point --
VWs in my life:
Air
Type 1 - 59, 62, 63, 71 Super 68 KGhia/ Type 2 - 59 Single Cab / Type 3 - 64 Notch
Water
GTI 83, Jetta 81, 85, 87, 91 TDI, 98 TDI, 09 / New Beetle 99 / SportWagen 05, 13 / Tiguan 18 / T3 92 /Taos 24... And don't about me and my experiences with my Dasher and Quantum |
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KylanC
Samba Member
Joined: April 19, 2017
Posts: 87
Location: Probably surfing somewhere
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| Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2025 6:20 pm Post subject: Re: Substandard rebuilt starters on the market (especially 6V) |
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| Ossipon wrote: |
| VWporscheGT3 wrote: |
eeeeeeew 6 volt |
I know, I know. There are some of us who torture ourselves for no reason in staying at 6 volt. But there we are.
It is situations like this that make me spend the money and time for the needed parts. I think the biggest issue stopping me is not the alternator or even starter replacement. It is the correct mounting and then the Fan housing change. If I could keep the existing housing, I think I would take the step now. |
It's definitely do-able to go 12v and keep the stock 6v fan housing. I did just that. I wanted my car to look/appear "correct" for a 64' but wanted a little extra from the 12v. I had a 90mm porsche 912 armature installed in my 6v gen casing so now its a 6v body but with the output of 12v. I was having hot start problems too a long time ago and I was able to repalace my starter with a WOSP high torque starter (self supporting too) and never looked back or had problems since. If you go this route and do eventually convert to 12v and spend the money to keep it 6v in appearance, just find out what amperage rating the armature is. I went through 6 or 7 burnouts before I finally figured it out and I had the rebuilder tell me what armature they used so I could match the VR with the right one. RosePassion also sells the right VR and it is also "stock" in appearance with both a 25 and 30 amp rating to match the armature rating.
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1964 safari beige (L563) notchback 1500 S
1966 Blue Squareback (sold) |
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Ossipon
Samba Member
Joined: May 12, 2021
Posts: 634
Location: KS
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| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2025 6:51 am Post subject: Re: Substandard rebuilt starters on the market (especially 6V) |
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Armature replacement is a good idea. I am not really needing the added amperage of an alternator. It is more the issue of 12v advantages over 6v. Did you have the back rod removed or was it done prior to your purchase?
I am not about to do what I remember someone doing years ago on a bug, i.e. just replacing the regulator to 12v and making everything else other than the generator 12v. My memory is that it did not end well. Worked OK at first and the generator was doing an output of 11v. But then the battery went bad early and a Generator fire (something I had never seen) This was about two seasons after that bad conversion.
_________________
Ossipon
--Two truths in life: Volkswagens Rust and everything will die at some point --
VWs in my life:
Air
Type 1 - 59, 62, 63, 71 Super 68 KGhia/ Type 2 - 59 Single Cab / Type 3 - 64 Notch
Water
GTI 83, Jetta 81, 85, 87, 91 TDI, 98 TDI, 09 / New Beetle 99 / SportWagen 05, 13 / Tiguan 18 / T3 92 /Taos 24... And don't about me and my experiences with my Dasher and Quantum |
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OldSchoolVW's 
Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2020
Posts: 1547
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2025 11:02 am Post subject: Re: Substandard rebuilt starters on the market (especially 6V) |
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Have you considered taking your stock 6v starter to a local rebuilder and have them rebuild it for you. I had premature failure problems with rebuilt starters purchased at auto parts stores. Sure they all had lifetime warranties, but who wants to keep replacing them? After the 3rd or 4th replacement, I took the last one I bought to an automotive electrical shop that did rebuilds. They went through it completely, used quality components and I never had another problem after that.
_________________
Tom
"Following distance is proportional to IQ."
"It's okay to think."
"If you don't do it this year, you'll be one year older when you do." Warren Miller
'63 Beetle Sedan
'69 Beetle Sunroof
'70 Beetle Sedan
'73 Type 3 Fastback |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 23521
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2025 12:58 pm Post subject: Re: Substandard rebuilt starters on the market (especially 6V) |
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| OldSchoolVW's wrote: |
| Have you considered taking your stock 6v starter to a local rebuilder and have them rebuild it for you. I had premature failure problems with rebuilt starters purchased at auto parts stores. Sure they all had lifetime warranties, but who wants to keep replacing them? After the 3rd or 4th replacement, I took the last one I bought to an automotive electrical shop that did rebuilds. They went through it completely, used quality components and I never had another problem after that. |
I agree with this. However in my town, the local re-builder closed shop. They didn't just rebuild starter motors and generators, but also electric motors (large ones for ships), but also door glass motors and things like that. They even rebuilt my air compressor motor. I still haven't found anyone to replace them.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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OldSchoolVW's
Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2020
Posts: 1547
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2025 4:41 pm Post subject: Re: Substandard rebuilt starters on the market (especially 6V) |
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| Bobnotch wrote: |
| OldSchoolVW's wrote: |
| Have you considered taking your stock 6v starter to a local rebuilder and have them rebuild it for you. I had premature failure problems with rebuilt starters purchased at auto parts stores. Sure they all had lifetime warranties, but who wants to keep replacing them? After the 3rd or 4th replacement, I took the last one I bought to an automotive electrical shop that did rebuilds. They went through it completely, used quality components and I never had another problem after that. |
I agree with this. However in my town, the local re-builder closed shop. They didn't just rebuild starter motors and generators, but also electric motors (large ones for ships), but also door glass motors and things like that. They even rebuilt my air compressor motor. I still haven't found anyone to replace them. |
It's a little drive, but how about Auto Electric International in Southfield? https://www.aeimich.com They seem to be capable of doing it right the first time. A couple of hours of travel time to get a long lasting starter beats the hours spent removing and replacing inferior rebuilds over and over again. The local rebuilder I would use is about an hour drive north of me. For me it's worth the time and travel to get it done right. I can check off that problem and be ready to move on to the inevitable next one.
_________________
Tom
"Following distance is proportional to IQ."
"It's okay to think."
"If you don't do it this year, you'll be one year older when you do." Warren Miller
'63 Beetle Sedan
'69 Beetle Sunroof
'70 Beetle Sedan
'73 Type 3 Fastback |
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sctbrd
Samba Member
Joined: May 06, 2013
Posts: 305
Location: Moravia, Czech Republic
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| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2025 9:49 pm Post subject: Re: Substandard rebuilt starters on the market (especially 6V) |
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| Ossipon wrote: |
| Armature replacement is a good idea. I am not really needing the added amperage of an alternator. It is more the issue of 12v advantages over 6v. |
What I did for my T34 was to remove almost all the electrical connectors, clean the wire ends well with contact cleaner and a wire brush, and crimp new connectors. Everthing worked much, much better.
And clean all ground points and light socket seats to bare metal.
It was a fair amount or work, but worth the time. |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 23521
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2025 11:54 am Post subject: Re: Substandard rebuilt starters on the market (especially 6V) |
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| VWporscheGT3 wrote: |
| Bobnotch wrote: |
| VWporscheGT3 wrote: |
| Im curious as to the rating of the automatic starters... I have been running automatic starters for a while on my manual fastback, they seem to give more grunt and are self supported they dont need to rely on a bushing in the trans housing. |
They do. I think they are .8hp or more. However, they are NOT available in 6 volt. |
eeeeeeew 6 volt |
I agree. That's why I converted my Notch to 12 volt.  I also have a push button switch wired in so I can turn the engine over on those days when the 13 year old starter decides it's not going to work. Remember, I have a one year only (71) ignition switch in my car.
I also converted my 64 T-34 to 12 volt, but in it I left the 6 volt starter. It turns over a little quicker, which is fine by me.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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OldSchoolVW's
Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2020
Posts: 1547
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2025 9:59 am Post subject: Re: Substandard rebuilt starters on the market (especially 6V) |
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| Bobnotch wrote: |
| I also converted my 64 T-34 to 12 volt, but in it I left the 6 volt starter. It turns over a little quicker, which is fine by me. |
Don't know if a T-34 uses the same starter as bugs and busses. Have you looked into this hybrid 6v/12v starter?
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=551031
If these don't work on your car, maybe you could send the core to him and he could do the conversion with it.
_________________
Tom
"Following distance is proportional to IQ."
"It's okay to think."
"If you don't do it this year, you'll be one year older when you do." Warren Miller
'63 Beetle Sedan
'69 Beetle Sunroof
'70 Beetle Sedan
'73 Type 3 Fastback |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 23521
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2025 1:28 pm Post subject: Re: Substandard rebuilt starters on the market (especially 6V) |
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| OldSchoolVW's wrote: |
| Bobnotch wrote: |
| I also converted my 64 T-34 to 12 volt, but in it I left the 6 volt starter. It turns over a little quicker, which is fine by me. |
Don't know if a T-34 uses the same starter as bugs and busses. Have you looked into this hybrid 6v/12v starter?
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=551031
If these don't work on your car, maybe you could send the core to him and he could do the conversion with it. |
I sold the car almost 12 years ago (it went to the UK. And my 65 Notch has been converted to 12 volt about 25 years now.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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