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Gauche1968
Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2006
Posts: 1562
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 Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 7:04 am Post subject: "The Most Dangerous Cars in the Road" classic VW film |
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https://motor-junkie.com/driving-dangers-the-most-...e=Facebook
"The Vanagon, sold from 1979-1991, was one of the worst-scoring German cars ever in a crash test. The van had a flat-fronted design, which obviously meant the driver wasn’t protected. But the awkward stance of the van also made it almost impossible for the driver to control when the vehicle lost control."
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1984 Vanagon GL
1984 Vanagon Westy
Last edited by Gauche1968 on Sun Mar 19, 2023 7:07 am; edited 1 time in total |
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dabaron
Samba Member
Joined: June 21, 2018
Posts: 2748
Location: Philly, mang
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| Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 7:06 am Post subject: Re: "The Most Dangerous Cars in the Road" |
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Link
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1991 Vanagon GL Camper
i had no idea i wanted to be a mechanic
Last edited by dabaron on Sun Mar 19, 2023 7:11 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Gauche1968
Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2006
Posts: 1562
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| Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 7:10 am Post subject: Re: "The Most Dangerous Cars in the Road" |
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This just showed up in my NewsFeed. I can't link to it, but the photo is of a Westfalia with the caption "KILLER" stamped over it.
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1984 Vanagon GL
1984 Vanagon Westy |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32987
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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Red Ryder
Samba Member
Joined: June 26, 2021
Posts: 1228
Location: PNW — Washington
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| Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 8:35 am Post subject: Re: "The Most Dangerous Cars in the Road" classic VW film |
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The video is pretty compelling, and definitive evidence for the advantage of wearing seatbelts. Be extremely thoughtful when making any front end mods that could alter the built-in crash safety engineering from Hanover. Anything that absorbs kinetic energy before it reaches a human being is included. Remember that in a collision loose items anywhere in the vehicle become projectiles looking for a target!
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“Most everyone’s mad here. You may have noticed I am not quite all there myself.” — Cheshire Cat, Adventures of Alice in Wonderland
“Scarlett” — 1990 Vanagon Carat Wolfsburg Edition (Tornado Red)
“Nigel” — 1999 Jaguar XK8 convertible (Alpine Green Metallic)
Last edited by Red Ryder on Sun Mar 19, 2023 9:11 am; edited 1 time in total |
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montanasurfer
Samba Member
Joined: March 06, 2014
Posts: 326
Location: United States
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| Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 8:50 am Post subject: Re: "The Most Dangerous Cars in the Road" classic VW film |
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My thought on this, which may be a rationalization, is that the vanagon was built in an era where cars acted like reinforced battering rams in crashes.
Having two battering rams ram each other seems like a violent and horrible scenario. However with modern cars having crumple zones... Having a battering ram hit a crumple zone doesn't seem as bad.
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1987 Vanagon GL - Wolfsburg Edition |
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sjbartnik
Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2011
Posts: 6041
Location: Brooklyn
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| Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 8:56 am Post subject: Re: "The Most Dangerous Cars in the Road" classic VW film |
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Wow so a guy with no specialized knowledge just recycled a bunch of the oldest automotive myths, did no investigation to determine whether they were even remotely true, and then posted it up on a blog for clicks? Next you'll tell me there's porn on the internet these days!
To save everybody the time and to avoid providing the guy click-based income, it's just a laundry list of the main unsafe car myths of the last 50 years, Pinto, Vega, Audi 5000, Corvair, etc. with just a little blurb for each recycling the old wives' tales we've all heard, most of which turned out to be false.
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1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650 |
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alaskadan
Samba Member
Joined: January 09, 2013
Posts: 1965
Location: anchor pt. alaska
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| Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 9:32 am Post subject: Re: "The Most Dangerous Cars in the Road" classic VW film |
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We all know that the corvair was the least safe at any speed  . That's why I have one of them too, a convertible at that! Am I mistaken though that the vanagon ranked well in crash test standards of its day? I thought I read that here in a thread a while back. |
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dobryan 
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 17329
Location: Brookeville, MD
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0cean
Samba Member
Joined: February 29, 2012
Posts: 1153
Location: California
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jimf909
Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2014
Posts: 8275
Location: WA/ID
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| Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 3:28 pm Post subject: Re: "The Most Dangerous Cars in the Road" classic VW film |
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| Gauche1968 wrote: |
https://motor-junkie.com/driving-dangers-the-most-...e=Facebook
"The Vanagon, sold from 1979-1991, was one of the worst-scoring German cars ever in a crash test. The van had a flat-fronted design, which obviously meant the driver wasn’t protected. But the awkward stance of the van also made it almost impossible for the driver to control when the vehicle lost control." |
Oh good grief. What a bunch of clickbait trash.
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- Jim
| Butcher wrote: |
| This is the main fault with DIY'ers, they get together on these forums and pat themselves on their backs spreading bad information. |
Guilty as charged.
Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, 280 ah LFP battery, 160 watts solar, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.
Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro). |
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Sodo
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 10884
Location: Western WA
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| Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 4:00 pm Post subject: Re: "The Most Dangerous Cars in the Road" classic VW film |
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Clickbait runs the world now.
Legislators are both suckered by it,
and if not,
still have to pass legislation on clickbait wisdom;
because their constituents demand it.
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'90 Westy EJ25, NEW oil rings (!) 2Peloquins, 3knobs, SyncroShop pressure-oiled pinion-bearing & GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox.
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered original gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 52724
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| Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 4:31 pm Post subject: Re: "The Most Dangerous Cars in the Road" classic VW film |
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I remember reading that the Vanagon had the lowest per mile mortality of any car sold in the US during the 1980s.
The flat front design with no compromised impact structure to allow for the engine-tranny package means the driver is better protected and not less protected. The dash and windshield being well forward of the occupants keeps them from busting their noggins better than any vehicle made without air bags, while the seeming high stance lets one see over the small rolling hills to better know what is happening in front of them and the engine and tranny carry their weight low for stability. The Vanagon also had excellent brakes for its era and decent enough handling, but it's low power and above average body roll kept people from driving them all that fast, which reduced the number of accidents they were involved in and increased the suitability rate when they were in a wreck.
The Vanagon is an improvement over the late Bay which was itself very good for its era. Search through Amskeptic's gallery or his website and find the photos of his Bay after it took a head-on at speed, he walked away. There have also been photos of several Samba members who have had head-on with their Vanagon and I think at worst they have had minor injuries. |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 52724
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| Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 4:51 pm Post subject: Re: "The Most Dangerous Cars in the Road" classic VW film |
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| montanasurfer wrote: |
My thought on this, which may be a rationalization, is that the vanagon was built in an era where cars acted like reinforced battering rams in crashes.
Having two battering rams ram each other seems like a violent and horrible scenario. However with modern cars having crumple zones... Having a battering ram hit a crumple zone doesn't seem as bad. |
The VW Bay Transporter led the industry and got a crumple zone circa 1972 and all Transporters manufactured for sale in the US since have had crumple zones. Since the engine isn't in front the engine can't take out one's legs and the lack of an opening in the structure for a front mounted engine means the Vanagon crumple zone naturally works better than those typically found in other vehicles. |
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dobryan
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 17329
Location: Brookeville, MD
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 52724
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| Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:02 pm Post subject: Re: "The Most Dangerous Cars in the Road" classic VW film |
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I think the guy struck out right at the start of his rant when he referred to Ralph Nader as a congressman. While I think Nader did a lot of good, he attack on the Corvair was misplaced.
I have owned several vehicles over the years that one group or another claimed were the most dangerous car on the road. One was an early-mid 1970s Toyota Land Cruiser FJ40, yet it took a head-on where both vehicles were doing ~40 mph. Not only did my passenger and I walk but I continued to drive the vehicle for years though I had to replace all the rivets in the frame with bolts as the half sheared rivets let the frame twist and rack as I drove down the road, the other's guy car was a mess, luckily no one was in the front passenger seat as any one in that seat would have died instantly. The FJ40 did have an energy absorbing front bumper I had built which undoubtedly helped save it as the bumper started out round in cross section ended up being flattened.
Last edited by Wildthings on Sun Mar 19, 2023 7:15 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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RoryGirl
Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2016
Posts: 1018
Location: WestWorld Nanaimo BC
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| Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:16 pm Post subject: Re: "The Most Dangerous Cars in the Road" classic VW film |
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We all know the Pinto was the most feared 
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kamzcab86
Samba Moderator
Joined: July 26, 2008
Posts: 8606
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:33 pm Post subject: Re: "The Most Dangerous Cars in the Road" classic VW film |
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| sjbartnik wrote: |
Wow so a guy with no specialized knowledge just recycled a bunch of the oldest automotive myths, did no investigation to determine whether they were even remotely true, and then posted it up on a blog for clicks? Next you'll tell me there's porn on the internet these days!
To save everybody the time and to avoid providing the guy click-based income, it's just a laundry list of the main unsafe car myths of the last 50 years, Pinto, Vega, Audi 5000, Corvair, etc. with just a little blurb for each recycling the old wives' tales we've all heard, most of which turned out to be false. |
This.👆🏼 To include the Audi 5000, which the NHTSA itself debunked, makes this "article" as pure, absolute rubbish as the "60 Minutes" exposé.
In 1989, after three years of studying the blatantly obvious, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) issued their report on Audi’s “sudden unintended acceleration problem.” NHTA’s findings fully exonerated Audi and some other implicated foreign makes”.
The report concluded that the Audi’s pedal placement was different enough from American cars’ normal set-up (closer to each other) to cause some drivers to mistakenly press the gas instead of the brake. 60 Minutes did not retract their piece; they called the NHTSA report “an opinion.”
https://www.curbsideclassic.com/blog/history/the-audi-500-unintended-acceleration-debacle/
As for the Vanagon, IIHS produced this in 1991:
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1986 Cabriolet: www.Cabby-Info.com
 1990 Vanagon Westfalia: Old Blue's Blog
2016 Golf GTI S
"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance." - 孔子 |
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ALIKA T3
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 7305
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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| Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:56 pm Post subject: Re: "The Most Dangerous Cars in the Road" classic VW film |
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| dobryan wrote: |
| The Vanagon scored very high in crash tests then afaik. They even crashed it with a Volvo and the Volvo lost. |
Yup, they did great, and not too shameful even to today's standards, as lo,ng as they're not rust buckets.
| djkeev wrote: |
So....... to me, the take away of this video is .......
1. Wear your seat belt
2. Leave your spare tire in place with the factory clam shell
You will probably walk away from most any crash of 50 km
So you're going Faster? Who knows? |
This spare tire sh!t is a myth, we discussed about it in details a few months ago when we discussed about the detachable steering column and crash features. I think this was in the thread for the electric power steering mods when I brought up the fact somebody will loose their legs/torso in a serious crash with these electric PS columns.
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Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget |
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Red Ryder
Samba Member
Joined: June 26, 2021
Posts: 1228
Location: PNW — Washington
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| Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 7:52 pm Post subject: Re: "The Most Dangerous Cars in the Road" classic VW film |
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| kamzcab86 wrote: |
As for the Vanagon, IIHS produced this in 1991:
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This graph shows the Vanagon to be on par with Volvo and Saab, known safety leaders of that era.
_________________
“Most everyone’s mad here. You may have noticed I am not quite all there myself.” — Cheshire Cat, Adventures of Alice in Wonderland
“Scarlett” — 1990 Vanagon Carat Wolfsburg Edition (Tornado Red)
“Nigel” — 1999 Jaguar XK8 convertible (Alpine Green Metallic) |
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