oil 5 years

[SGKent]

Thought I would share this tidbit. Lake Speed Jr has a youtube channel named The Motor Oil Geek. He is the son of Lake Speed, the NASCAR driver. Probably some here have watched his youtubes. He is a specialist in motor oils. I was up late last night just unwinding, and caught one I found quite interesting.

Old motor oil does go bad. His suggestion is to not use motor oil that has been sitting for more than 5 years because the additives come out of suspension and the oil often goes go bad. He opened up some 10 and 20 year old bottles of both engine oil, and gear oil sitting around his dad's shop after he retired from NASCAR and go-cart racing about 10- 20 years ago. All that he opened had gone bad from sitting - even oils that he thought would not have done so. I guess for me, now I have to check dates on the engine oil and gear oil I have sitting around the garage, and then check them out. Many are going to be over 5 years because I often buy them by the case. That is a bummer.


Link

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"Most people don't know what they're doing, and a lot of them are really good at it." - George Carlin

[raygreenwood]

[SGKent]

I followed up watching his scientific study of old vs new oil and was stunned. No way am I buying oil in cases anymore and keeping it around. The stuff is best new and it goes bad with time. Like really bad.


Link

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"Most people don't know what they're doing, and a lot of them are really good at it." - George Carlin

[jtauxe]

Like old tires. I am having to replace all the tires on my pickups, even the unused spares, with new since I realized that they were all 10 years old, or nearly so. I drives my neighbor crazy, since he uses old tires on his trailer that are clearly cracked and failing in my view. I see it as a safety issue, as much for your own ride or trailer as to others on the road. I have been nearly hit by tires blowing out on other vehicles.

Old tires are bad news. And oil only good for 5 years? I had never thought of that.

So, I am also taking the opportunity to repaint all my rims!
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John
"Travelling in a fried-out Kombi, on a hippie trail, head full of zombie..." - Colin Hay and Ron Strykert
http://vw.tauxe.net
1969 Transporter, 1971 Westfalia, 1976, 1977, 1976, 1977, 1971, 1973, 1977 Westfalias,
1979 Champagne Sunroof, 1974 Westfalia Automatic, 1979 Transporter, 1972 Sportsmobile, 1973 Transporter Wild Westerner, 1974 Westfalia parts bus, 1975 Mexican single cab *FOR SALE*, 1978 Irish 4-door double cab RHD

[orwell84]

[Wildthings]

Comparing as SF oil to an SP oil is pretty pointless. New and fresh out of the bottle the wear with an SF oil might well have been 10-20 times a great as with an SP oil. We're are talking about an oil that was over 40 years old when this video was made. Lots has changed since then, a house brand oil today would give you noticeably better performance than a top of the line oil would have 40 years ago, so I would not expect a forty year oil oil to have aged well compared to how a newer oil would age, especially one that is expected to be capable of going 15-25,000 miles. The ZDDP molecules in today's oils are far more stable than the ZDDP molecules of yore, which is why manufactures have been able to drop the concentration of ZDDP over the last few years and still get superior anti-wear performance.

I know that for my high mileage 1800 which I rebuilt in the summer of 1990 when it got torn down 250,000 miles later there was essentially zero cylinder taper and the cross hatching was still visible at the top of the ring travel where wear is the greatest, the cross hatch at the top of the ring travel was renewed in just seconds with a bar hone. This engine got semiannual oil changes (~6000 mile) with 10w30 in the winter and 30wt during the summer for the first half of its life, and then got semi annual oil changes running thinner synthetics every 20-25,000 miles for the second half of its life.

I really doubt that an SN oil would age significantly in even ten years, but by the time it is tens years old, better oils will be on the shelves at the FLAPS.

As for shaking oil, heat the bottles in a water bath to 180°F+ before pouring it into the engine and let the bottles drain well and you should get next to nothing left laying in the bottom of the bottles.

[SGKent]

[jlrftype7]

Haven't watched the videos YET, but will. Wonder if non-detergent oil like I use for my Commerical Grade Air Compressor in my shop suffers the same fate sitting in a bottle on the shelf year after year. ???
What do you think, SGKent, having watched the Videos??
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'68 Westy- my first VW and vehicle/Bus- long gone.- sold it to a traveling Swiss couple....
'67 Type 3 Fastback, my 2nd car- gone
'69 Semi-Auto Stick Shift Beetle-gone
2017 MINI Coopers, our current DDs
‘84 Tin Top - Hilga....Auto

[SGKent]

[Wildthings]

[SGKent]

[Wildthings]

[SGKent]

[Abscate]

Equivalence of analogies to generate internet arguments is an art form.
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[raygreenwood]

It does not matter if it's SF or SD...old or new. It does not matter if it's grease or oil...Dino or synthetic.

These are ALL COMPOUNDS.....with metals, some of which are electrolytically active and minerals....and oxygen. They all age and they all oxidize and they all change.

In fact, there is not one long term stable compound on this planet that contains zinc. If you wanted to just single out one component that everyone can recognize.....it's zinc. It starts reacting the day it's pulled out of the ground.

Even unopened brake fluid starts oxidizing enough to have measurable change at around 2 years. Shelflife for most brake fluid unopened is ~5 years.

One might ask what is changing. It's the glycol ether and or propylene glycol. We use the same raw materials as solvents in my industry and we consistently can measure the differen e in old 5 gallon cans of propylene glycol monobutyl ether. It changes color, PH, Baum density and strength.

There is no doubt in my mind that every single automotive chemical or lubricant we use degrades over time.
The only question is how much is too much.

Ray

[Wildthings]

[SGKent]

Mike - you are more than welcome to my old oil when I get time to check the production dates. Just pay for the shipping. I don't want an oxidized oil that froths up and sends a soup of air and oil to the bearings. We tossed enough connecting rods racing to know how expensive it is when it happens. Back in those days I was lucky to be able to afford an oil change for my bus, let alone buy a case and store the excess, so it never occurred to me oil had a finite shelf life - other than using it as bar chain oil or for squeaky hinges etc.. I bought it and used it right away. I just don't want something that is going to cause a bearing failure.

I kept asking myself when I tore this engine down in 2022 - what caused the spalling in new low mile bearings? It did not happen back with the 2010 engine and same components. It never happened on the type 1 motors - and I pushed that engine far harder than this type 4. Got my answer in Lake's video. Old frothy oil left over from the case I bought in 2009 - 2010. Those craters are hot spots where the froth did not properly lubricate. #3 rod was the worst. #2 and #3 rod journals are always where the air collects and ejects out in most crankshafts. By the time it gets to number 4 the air is usually gone. #2 is the worst but the oil is cooler. Some of the tiny pieces then carried down line to #4. I also don't want my lifters and cam lobes to wear excessively faster than they already do either.

These bearing had a 20 minute break in on them, and maybe 10 miles. I got my answer - they got hot from the frothy oil. Stupid ass me also tried your advice to overfill the sump to get better cooling but that would have made it worse because it churns the oil more. Must have looked like whipped egg whites in that case when the engine was running with 11 - 12 year old oil. I do not want any oil that is more than 3 - 5 years old and most of what I have is probably 8 - 12 years old.

#3 rod

#4 rod

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"Most people don't know what they're doing, and a lot of them are really good at it." - George Carlin

[Abscate]

SLicks oil change service

Take the oil from low mileage car #1 and use it in customer #2

Charge customer 1 for both the oil and a recycle fee.
Charge customer 2 for the oil change and a green carbon credit surcharge, and disposal fee.
Spray paint Fram filters black and label them OEM brand. Invoice accordingly.

Dont forget to add shop supplies and a DEI tax.
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[SGKent]

[Wildthings]

If this producer of this video wanted to produce a worthwhile video, he would have chosen to use a two eleven year old oils, and two 6 year old oils of the same brand and then two newly manufactured oils again of the same brand. For all we know the SE and SF oils he tested are acting 100% factory normal and have little deterioration with time, and all he is proving is that SE and SF oils were junk compared to today's oil. I mentioned above that the circa 1990 rebuilt 1800 that was in my bus and lasted 250K miles, it didn't die from a lubrication problem but due to cracks in one of the original heads that had either 370 or 420K miles on them total since new. This engine would have always run an SG oil or newer, and had unmeasureable taper to the cylinders.

I also have an 1800 that came out of a 1974 Type 4 car and it was last run in 1995 or earlier, so assuming it got 15K miles a year on it, it had at most 315K miles on it. The cylinders had a huge 0.015" of taper. This engine would have most likely run SE and SF oils over most of it's life and maybe an oil change or two of SG oils.

Unless someone is an idiot and just wants to believe everything automotive from the 1970s was better than anything made since (which sadly a lot of people seem to do even though they own and drive far new cars that they seldom as much as check the oil on), then no one should be searching out oils of that era thinking that they are somehow better or even equal to today's oils.

I don't buy the shaking the oil thing like he did as it would be worthless, just heat the oil to 180°F and pour it in, letting it drain well and let the engine do the mixing. Shaking the bottle or can when its 3/4 empty might help get something sitting in the bottom of the container to move and drain, don't know. You might use a chop stick or something to loosen something stubborn in the bottom of the container.

He proved nothing about how a ten or even 20 year old SJ or SL oil ages, because these are not what he tested, even though these are the oils that an old car enthusiast would be most likely to search out a case of and use.