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Mickey89
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2024
Posts: 22
Location: New Brunswick, Canada
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 Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2025 12:11 pm Post subject: Timing of a 1979 super beetle with a 09 distributor |
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Trying to find top dead Center of my 1979 super beetle between these 2 marks (photo attached) and how’s the best way to time it?
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my3bugs
Samba Member
Joined: June 18, 2003
Posts: 829
Location: Moreno Valley
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| Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2025 12:16 pm Post subject: Re: Timing of a 1979 super beetle with a 09 distributor |
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check this out . i think the dimple is your TDC but you need to/should remove a valve cover n confirm it or you could be 180 off .
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=251672 |
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bsairhead
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2008
Posts: 4468
Location: viroqua wi.
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| Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2025 1:32 pm Post subject: Re: Timing of a 1979 super beetle with a 09 distributor |
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| Dimple is TDC. 009 needs all in advance 3500 rpm or so at 30 degrees advance. So you need a degree wheel or elementary math skills or a timing light with advance capability's. |
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 33041
Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2025 2:43 pm Post subject: Re: Timing of a 1979 super beetle with a 09 distributor |
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Dimple on the pulley rim at rear of VW is TDC. The notch is 5 degrees after TDC (5 ATDC) which is used ONLY if one has stock fuel injection (or stock carburetor on those equipped, from 1971 on) AND the original correct distributor.
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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tasb
The Distributor Distributor
Joined: April 27, 2002
Posts: 6725
Location: Pentwater, Michigan
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| Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2025 6:58 pm Post subject: Re: Timing of a 1979 super beetle with a 09 distributor |
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Since you are using a uh oh 9 distributor neither of those marks will be useful. The TDC dimple is still useful for checking valve lash though. As above you time by verifying no more than 32 degrees of advance at full throttle. You will need to locate 32 degrees BTDC on your pulley and mark it with some bright paint and then use a timing light to verify.
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Roads Scholar
1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018
1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc
1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse
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my3bugs
Samba Member
Joined: June 18, 2003
Posts: 829
Location: Moreno Valley
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| Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2025 7:11 pm Post subject: Re: Timing of a 1979 super beetle with a 09 distributor |
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first off i have no clue to your year bugs motor . but like if you have a degreed pulley , when you attach a timing light it shows the exact total degree your at 30 31 32 or what ever you set it at , not with this pulley . your miss matched . maybe get a stock distributor or a degreed pulley . the 09 wasent made/used for your motor . its just a cheap part that will prolly give you lots of grief unless your a good tuner . trying/having to bypass n plug ports on your carb ......its not in the manual how to add an 09 . its typically used with dual carbs .
that said in my youth i did similar , your need to learn the heal toe dance to keep it running at stop lights or traffic 
Last edited by my3bugs on Sun Jul 06, 2025 7:36 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Glenn 
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 79432
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2025 7:13 pm Post subject: Re: Timing of a 1979 super beetle with a 09 distributor |
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| tasb wrote: |
| Since you are using a uh oh 9 distributor neither of those marks will be useful. The TDC dimple is still useful for checking valve lash though. As above you time by verifying no more than 32 degrees of advance at full throttle. You will need to locate 32 degrees BTDC on your pulley and mark it with some bright paint and then use a timing light to verify. |
Only if you're using a timing light from 1970.
Almost all modern timing light have a feature where you can "dial in" the advance. Meaning you set the timing light to 32* and it adjusts the light so you only use the TDC mark. The TDC mark is the dimple.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי |
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tasb
The Distributor Distributor
Joined: April 27, 2002
Posts: 6725
Location: Pentwater, Michigan
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2025 3:19 am Post subject: Re: Timing of a 1979 super beetle with a 09 distributor |
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Perhaps, but still a good idea to have 32 degrees designated on your pulley. I’ve oft wondered why Wolfsburg didn’t place a notch at 32.
_________________
Roads Scholar
1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018
1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc
1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse
Member# 2059 |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 79432
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2025 4:53 am Post subject: Re: Timing of a 1979 super beetle with a 09 distributor |
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| tasb wrote: |
| Perhaps, but still a good idea to have 32 degrees designated on your pulley. I’ve oft wondered why Wolfsburg didn’t place a notch at 32. |
Because they specified 7.5* and put a notch there.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 33041
Location: Hot Arizona
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 79432
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2025 7:25 am Post subject: Re: Timing of a 1979 super beetle with a 09 distributor |
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Again, not needed, just set it at the timing light and use the TDC mark.
BTW, not all degree pulleys are correct.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare
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bsairhead
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2008
Posts: 4468
Location: viroqua wi.
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2025 8:04 am Post subject: Re: Timing of a 1979 super beetle with a 09 distributor |
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| Glenn wrote: |
Again, not needed, just set it at the timing light and use the TDC mark.
BTW, not all degree pulleys are correct.
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And for those of you that don't understand. The key way at TDC should be at 9:00 not 3:00. Someone had a Monday moment. |
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baldessariclan
Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2016
Posts: 2025
Location: Wichita, KS
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2025 9:27 am Post subject: Re: Timing of a 1979 super beetle with a 09 distributor |
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| tasb wrote: |
| Perhaps, but still a good idea to have 32 degrees designated on your pulley. I’ve oft wondered why Wolfsburg didn’t place a notch at 32. |
Original factory distributors' centrifugal advance weights and springs were calibrated such that if the idle timing was set correctly, the total advance would also automatically fall within the specified 28° - 32° BTDC range at 3,800+ rpm -- no additional timing marks were needed.
But 50+ years later, w/ all the various non-stock/custom "mix-and-match" carburetor and distributor combos, putting timing marks on the pulley (appropriate for your own specific setup) is a good idea IMO.
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1971 Standard Beetle — fairly stock / driver
baldessariclan -- often in error, never in doubt... |
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ashman40
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 16553
Location: North Florida, USA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2025 12:21 pm Post subject: Re: Timing of a 1979 super beetle with a 09 distributor |
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Correction here... the TDC mark on the crank pulley indicates that the #1 cylinder is at the top of it stroke... it does NOT indicate when the the #1 cylinder is at the end of the compression stroke. This is a common misunderstanding and misleading.
It is very similar to stating...
"A traditional analog clock (above) will tell you when it is Noon or midnight." This is incorrect, it tells you neither. Twice a day an analog clock will tell you when it is 12-o'clock. The clock and its hands cannot tell you if it is Noon or midnight. You need additional information like whether the Sun is in the sky or the stars are out.
The TDC mark will line up with the case split when the #1 piston is at the end of the compression stroke AND at the end of the exhaust stroke. It does the same for the #3 piston which is at the top of its stroke at the same time as piston #1. You cannot tell which stroke it is at the end of from the crank pulley markings alone. You need additional information like whether the #1 valves are closed or in motion to determine if the cylinder is at the end of the compression stroke (valves closed) or at the end of the exhaust stroke (exhaust valve closing, intake valve opening).
The crank pulley cannot be "180 off" (except in the rare case of Glenn's pic where it appears someone applied a stick on degree ring onto the crank pulley in the wrong orientation!  ). It is the distributor/rotor which is often 180 off from where it would normally be because someone incorrectly installed the distributor drive gear or the distributor drive cog.
To the OP, just to avoid confusion, would you post the part# stamped into the side of your distributor. There were two different VW Beetle distributors with "009" at the end of the part# Please post the whole number here.
Also, confirm if you have a modern inductive strobe timing light w/ "advance" function that can be adjusted in degree increments. If you don't have one but are planning on buying a timing light to maintain your Beetle, consider getting one that comes with a Dwell feature as well. You really want to use a dwell meter when setting the point gap and most folks new to the hobby will not have one.
Do you also have a 12v incandescent test lamp? These are handy for static timing your distributor just to get the engine running.
Here are two websites with LOTS of info on maintaining your Beetle (in addition to TheSamba):
http://www.vw-resource.com/index.html
https://speedyjim.net/
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AshMan40
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road  }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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my3bugs
Samba Member
Joined: June 18, 2003
Posts: 829
Location: Moreno Valley
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2025 1:01 pm Post subject: Re: Timing of a 1979 super beetle with a 09 distributor |
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i duno , i may not be the best explainer ..... but it works for me when i adjust my valves to remove the valve cover n confirm #1 is loose on the intake and exhaust valve adjustment . thats how i know its not noon or midnight but tdc ???
you cant just trust the line in the distributor .
Last edited by my3bugs on Mon Jul 07, 2025 1:14 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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bsairhead
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2008
Posts: 4468
Location: viroqua wi.
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2025 1:13 pm Post subject: Re: Timing of a 1979 super beetle with a 09 distributor |
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| my3bugs wrote: |
i duno , i may not be the explainer ..... but it works for me when i adjust my valves to remove the valve cover n confirm #1 is loose on the intake and exhaust valve adjustment . thats how i know its not noon or midnight but tdc ?
you cant just trust the line in the distributor .
my 180 comment was just trying to say when looking at the distributor it points at number 1 twice before a spark is emitted there . you need to confirm if it indeed is on 1 . |
You are correct, you are not the "explainer" The pulley indicates TDC 2 times compared to the distributor pointing to #1 once. |
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my3bugs
Samba Member
Joined: June 18, 2003
Posts: 829
Location: Moreno Valley
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2025 1:16 pm Post subject: Re: Timing of a 1979 super beetle with a 09 distributor |
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your right , my bad - pulley vs rotor point but either way you need to confirm it before adjusting anything . ill step down .
you were so fast i couldnt correct myself fast enough but i know how it works . |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 79432
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2025 1:28 pm Post subject: Re: Timing of a 1979 super beetle with a 09 distributor |
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The stock pulley with the dimple is either TDC on #1 or #3. You can use the mark on the distributor to confirm or....
Remove the driver's side valve cover. Put a 30mm wrench on the crank pulley, rotate the engine so the TDC mark is at the case seam. Now have someone rock the wrench back and forth as you loose at the rockers on #3. IF they are moving then you are at TDC on #1. If they are not, rotate the engine 360* and do it again.
100% fool proof.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare
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tasb
The Distributor Distributor
Joined: April 27, 2002
Posts: 6725
Location: Pentwater, Michigan
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| Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2025 12:31 pm Post subject: Re: Timing of a 1979 super beetle with a 09 distributor |
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Only if you happen to have a helper on hand. I hope I don’t need to apologize for being an old guy. I still use my 1970’s timing light that needs 32 degrees marked on the pulley in order to verify I’m not over advanced. Yes, on the vacuum only distributors static timing at 0*, 7-8* or 10* is pretty darn consistently accurate. If you’re not sure which of the three you’ve got, guess what will help you figure it out? I prefer it over the adjustable models I’ve tried. The dials on them are pretty wonky. They were loose /inaccurate enough that I didn’t trust them to stay in place while in use. Marking the pulley at 32* has a strong tendency to stay in place on the pulley. Maybe get a new timing light with a digital dial indicator? Me, I’ll stick with the 1970’s, thank you.
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Roads Scholar
1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018
1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc
1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse
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ashman40
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 16553
Location: North Florida, USA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2025 3:14 pm Post subject: Re: Timing of a 1979 super beetle with a 09 distributor |
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I was using my 1980s Craftsman strobe timing light for decades. I promised myself I would get me a "fancy" timing light when the Craftsman died. That sucker is STILL working even after drops and bouncing around in the trunk of many cars it has outlived. The lens popped off but I glued it back in place because it still worked.
I eventually bought a strobe light off Amazon with dwell and tach functions. My Craftsman is now my backup.
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AshMan40
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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