New challenge

[oprn]

Have you ever regretted supporting someone's dream? A fellow I got to know in a town an hour north of us saw the wife and I driving our street Buggy.

"I always wanted one of those!" So he spent the next summer on line sending me pictures of Buggies for sale, picked one that looked really good, paid top dollar and met the guy 1/2 way across the country to pick it up.

A year goes by in which we keep trying to get together for a ride and some ice cream but life is too busy for both of us and it doesn't happen. I keep hearing about "little" annoying things he is dealing with, shaky steering, flat spots on acceleration, that sort of thing. Nothing much, just hints. I know he doesn't want to be a whiner or impose on me. Nice guy all around!

Now this fellow is a retired school teacher, excellent people skills, very musical but almost zero mechanical skills.

Finally we break through the busy wall, "I gotta at least see this thing!" I tell him. So he confesses to wanting to change the oil and is confused about the significance of the oil strainer, what to do with it etc. And "I would really like to have you drive it to see if it's "normal".

Yesterday was the day! Took our Buggy. Oil change went fine. No surprises, has a filter pump, good deal! I'm looking at the engine and alarm bells are going off... 1/2 a cooling system, dual cannons, Chinese no name distributor and carb, tiny aftermarket air cleaner, regulation plastic fuel filter beside the coil and distributor cap ready for an insurance fire claim (parks it in the garage attached to his house), in short, all the appropriate mistakes that have been made on these engines in Buggies for the last 50 years.

Test drive time! He is in mine and I am in his. First off, this thing has a 2000 RPM idle! Huh! On the road the shake kicks in at 55 MPH and out at 65 MPH... perfect, just where you always wanted one! Not bad, bad, just annoying as heck! Car feels twitchy but the steering is tight, no play at all... anywhere. I know he has spent quite a bit at the alignment shop on this thing.

Conclusion: Needs castor shims and get rid of the offset caused by adaptors and wide tires/rims. Start with the shims... $15 + shipping.

Engine, seems to run ok... sort of. A 1641 DP should be a lot more lively really, you ain't going to pull out and pass anything. High idle is really annoying. Bit of a flat spot, not too bad. Does have a vacuum pot and it's hooked up. Hmmm...

Back home to do some adjusting. This is where the whole thing starts to unravel! Every carb adjustment I try makes it run worse! Throttle cable resembles a guy wire for a telecommunications tower. Big and stiff. The carb return spring cannot overcome it enough to close the throttle fully. Engine does NOT want to idle down. It's acting like it has a wild cam, lumpy hit and miss idle even at 1000 RPM.

Now let's check the timing. Oh Boy! 21* at idle vacuum line plugged, 43* at full mechanical advance. turn it down to 9* and 31*... won't idle at all! Back to the carb and open the air bleed back up to finally get a ragged 1000 RPM idle... test drive time.

Now we have better power but a hole in transition you could drive a Greyhound Bus through! Back on the carb, accelerator pump is already maxed out, get some relief from leaning out the idle and putting the idle speed back up to 1800 RPM but this thing is just NOT RIGHT!

So, out of time for the day, starting to realize there is no simple fix here, I have just embarked on my next career to get this thing running properly, need to start with a valve lash adjustment, compression test, dial indicator to determine cam choice (Buddy was told it has a performance cam), look for intake leaks, see if the heat riser is plugged, change the exhaust to get some heat riser flow, add ALL the bottom tins including flaps and thermostat, do something with the stiff throttle cable, get an extension on the air cleaner to contain the fuel fog.

Only then can I attempt to tune it...

Here is the kicker. Buddy gave me a gift certificate when I went to leave for helping with the oil change and making his Buggy run worse! Now I feel really bad as he has already spent way too much on this thing!

The upside is that I am so, so grateful/blessed if you will for having grown up with, driven and maintained our own air cooled VWs in the past and know how they are supposed to run. There must be a hundred thousand Buggy owners out there with engines that run like crap and they have no idea... just like my Buddy here!

P.S. Last summer I met in person the 80 year old man that built my Buddy's Buggy. Really nice guy! Does a really nice job of building them, clean and sweet, show quality really or very close. "I build them all the same." he told me. But... he never drives them more than a few blocks to get a coffee or a doughnut! Never on the highway... so this is but one of 68 Buggies he has built and sold! "Ya, I always set them at 15* BTDC and the valve lash at .010"."

Just think, there are 67 more Buggies around here that just need a proper tune!

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Our cars get old, we get old but driving an old VW never gets old!

[EVfun]

Some thoughts...

Caster shims for sure, when the tires stick out they are very needed. If it has front disc brakes there may be a rotor option available with the GM pattern to eliminate the adapters and push the tires in some.

The throttle cable sounds like the original early style. They are a solid steel wire, pretty stiff, but it should return without binding. That is what is in my buggy. There were originally used with the pusher return spring with the 28 PCI or 28 PICT carb. You mention the need for an intake extension, for looks I would see if you could find one of these air filter bases.
[photo by Scott Novak]

Good catch on the WAY off timing. This thing sounds like it might benefit from getting a rebuilt OEM carb and distributor. I don't trust the new replacement parts that much. Unless...

If the engine has much of a cam in it I think it will always be a bear on the low end so long as the stock intake and carb are in place. However, with dune buggy duals the stock single carb is likely the best choice for intake. His buggy doesn't look like it has room for a pair of Webers.

With that exhaust the heat riser is never going to work that well. Perhaps an air filter with a snorkel can be found and then you could run a hose off the snorkel back to the oil cooler outlet (I'm guessing this has a doghouse cooling system). This may be more of a warm weather car.

The full stock cooling system is a good idea on a buggy, but few have it and most run a lot better than what you described. You will have to pull the engine to correct the cooling system to stock unless that chrome shroud happens to have the flaps installed. Would you have to loosen and lift the body a little to pull the engine? (the shroud looks close, and the body slopes down behind it)

Remember that a lot of what is done with buggies is about the look. Some of the mods are not the most practical, but for the most part these are fair weather cars. He has a beautiful looking buggy. I would try to keep the modifications for driveability in style.
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[oprn]

[NJ John]

Some people just aren’t meant to own a classic custom vehicle. You need some brains and mechanical ability.
Check for a quick steer kit. And front and back alignment. Not sure it’s in need of caster shims.
I spun a buggy out at the track with zero caster. It feels like the rear is on ice and is trying to pass you.
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1973 standard, yellow, lowered, 3” narrowed front, 1600 blo-thru turbo w/single dell 15.4@86, so far
11.41 et buggy. Long gone
Let’s go O’s! Let’s go O’s!
https://www.youtube.com/@AirSpooledGarage

[oprn]

[oprn]

[quote="oprn"]

[NJ John]

I always said, if you can keep your lawnmower running well, you could probably handle an aircooled vw, but some people can’t keep their lawnmower running.
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1973 standard, yellow, lowered, 3” narrowed front, 1600 blo-thru turbo w/single dell 15.4@86, so far
11.41 et buggy. Long gone
Let’s go O’s! Let’s go O’s!
https://www.youtube.com/@AirSpooledGarage

[oprn]

I don't really have time to deal with this engine right now, fall garden work, winterizing the acreage and a grandchild on the way in the next 2 or 3 weeks 11 hours away. So for now I am taking my sand rail over to him today (it has a single port 1641) to drive around and get a feel as to how they should run. Then this winter I will put his Buggy in my garage, pull the engine and get at it.

I am hoping he will come over (1 hour drive) and get involved. I think he has the interest to and will.
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Our cars get old, we get old but driving an old VW never gets old!

[BIGMIKEY]

I would like to hear more about the crossover pipe idea. I considered doing that once but never did it.

Mike T
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BIGMIKEY

Deserter Series 1 project.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=787047&highlight=

1973 Beetle Driver, Marina Blue.

[EVfun]

The crossover pipe is interesting to me as well. I never thought about that until Oprn mentioned it. I did consider crossing over the cylinders, running #1 exhaust over to merge with the #4 and the #3 over to merge with #2. I’ve wondered if reversing the exhaust pulses compared to the intake would make dual Kadrons behave. Instead I ditched the Kads.

Oprn, if he intends that to be a summer fun vehicle you could likely get it to behave without pulling the engine. I’d start with a compression test and general check-up. Then I’d make sure the heat riser flowed and perhaps use a welder to create slight positive and negative scoops in the 2 and 4 pipes. It might benefit from a power pulley, even with one my first buggy oil temperature was only about 100F over outside temp. A rebuilt stock carb and distributor to correct that end (may need minor rejetting). All that, and a taller air filter as you mentioned, may just net a driveable buggy. (Since they are still running cold I tend to toss in a couple degrees extra advance at idle too.)
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[Buggeee]

It's a good looking buggy. Well worth sorting it out.
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Big Time 1988 Vanagon Westy
Release the Krankenwagen! 1966 Sportsmobile Camper
Dr. Kompressor 72 Super Duper
61 Turkis Pile (adopted out)

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[oprn]

Well, here I am finally back a couple weeks ago with enough parts to have a go at this Buggy.

Engine out, fan housing off, flaps, thermostat and all the tins in place. Cheap exhaust gaskets had already failed, hade a set of temporary ones to get him through the summer while we got some proper ones in. Exhaust nuts were various sizes and quality, ordered some copper nuts. Welded little cups in the #2 and #4 exhaust ports to see if we can get flow in the heat riser. New boots and new intake gaskets on the intake manifold.

Put it all back together and tried to get a tune on the carb. No joy, big flat spot and still lacking power in the upper revs. Accelerator pump maxed out but not delivering enough. Cheap distributor set at 10* initial and 31* total at about 3200 RPM. Seems surprisingly stable too. At least it idles now below 2K!

Ran out of time.

Back at it yesterday with a stock Solex and carb kit. Put a 4" extension on the air cleaner, proper boots on the spark plug wires, 2.5* castor shims on the front beam.

Runs and drives like a completely different car now! The only fly in the ointment is a 2 cylinder idle. #3 and #4 won't stay lit at idle and very low speeds. Creates a hole just barely off idle that disappears the instant it gets the accelerator pump shot. Idle mixture adjustment screw is open far too much, I took it right out and covered the hole with my finger with no change in how it runs. Far too lean, must still be some corrosion in the idle circuit we missed. Tried different idle cut off solenoids too but no change. Idle jet confirmed as a 55 and clean.

Out of time again, maybe tomorrow...
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Our cars get old, we get old but driving an old VW never gets old!

[kpf]

Congratulations on the improvements!

[oprn]

And that is why we replaced the intake boots and gaskets. It idled as good as can be expected for and engine with dual cannons with the Chinese carb. The idle problem started with this Solex so pretty sure it's the carb. I sprayed ether starting fluid around that side just to be sure and there was no change.

Bringing a 50 year old carb back to life just might take a couple tries.
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Our cars get old, we get old but driving an old VW never gets old!

[MrGoodtunes]

[EVfun]

I have never seen a throttle shaft leak give a 2 cylinder idle on one side. We ran some pretty loose ones back before aftermarket “stock” carbs were available. I’ve also never seen dune buggy duals cause a 2 cylinder idle on one side. They can cause 1 and 3 to drop out. So… the simplest answer is you have a slight intake leak on the left side.
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[oprn]

Yes the throttle shaft does have some wear.

I totally get the intake leak thing but explain to me why it leaks with the Solex carb but not the Chinese clone?
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Our cars get old, we get old but driving an old VW never gets old!

[EVfun]