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brc0703
Samba Member
Joined: May 24, 2010
Posts: 276
Location: Antioch, CA
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 Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 4:13 pm Post subject: How much rear wheel bearing play is ok? |
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| my rear wheels both rock a little bit so i completely dissembled both rear hubs checked everything and didnt find any scoring or pitting but the driver side outer bearing was a slip in fit.. doesnt have any play but the outer race spins in the hub.. i regreased the bearings and reassembled and still have about .012 of play.. its really annoying hitting a bump and clankityclankity echos from the back of the car.. kinda sounds like 4 people all smacking 2 open end wrenches together at the same time |
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JerryMCarter1
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Joined: January 07, 2007
Posts: 6199
Location: N.W. Phoenix
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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.012 will not make that noise!
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Experience always triumphs over hearsay and You get to select which theory to believe |
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Multi69s
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Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 5537
Location: Lefty, CA
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brc0703
Samba Member
Joined: May 24, 2010
Posts: 276
Location: Antioch, CA
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:55 pm Post subject: |
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| i have the hub off again cuz i forgot to bolt down the ebrake cable to the backing plate.. ill do a little video demo of what im talking about |
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brc0703
Samba Member
Joined: May 24, 2010
Posts: 276
Location: Antioch, CA
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| Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:13 am Post subject: |
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ok here is the video.. i have the 36mm nut on around 300ft lbs and the cv joint is disconnected and out of the way.. the shocks bushings are fine.. its obvious what im talking about
Link
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JerryMCarter1
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Joined: January 07, 2007
Posts: 6199
Location: N.W. Phoenix
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| Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:03 am Post subject: |
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When the bolts are tight it should take it up !
Maybe the drum is flexing - but it is flexing way more than .012-- the measurement of .012 is the wiggle of the bearing - not the banging sound= Take a grinder and take some distance off of the drum - In order to make that noise the distance has to be at least 1/8 inch maybe slightly less-
Jerry
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Experience always triumphs over hearsay and You get to select which theory to believe |
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brc0703
Samba Member
Joined: May 24, 2010
Posts: 276
Location: Antioch, CA
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| Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:22 am Post subject: |
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| hmm.. by distance you mean the width of the drum? like the rim near the backing plate? not sure thats really this problem.. with the tire on is more noticeable that somethings loose or missing maybe.. i noticed that the outer bearings were both on different ways.. 1 with the open side facing in and visaversa.. not sure what the correct way is but i put the open side in.. figured thats where the grease is.. im going to get a new outer bearing and see how that does.. i did a little more wiggling around and if i grab the nut in the center i get no in/out movement just rocking up and down.. hope that does it cuz i am tired of taking these hubs apart.. greasy as hell and im about out of gloves and rags |
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goober
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Joined: May 03, 2003
Posts: 1233
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| Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:42 am Post subject: |
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| Is the cir-clip and groove in good shape? |
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Blue69Baja
Samba Member
Joined: September 04, 2008
Posts: 1115
Location: Fair Oaks
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| Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:11 am Post subject: |
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The inner "BALL" bearing is what keeps things tight...
The cclip keeps the inner bearing tight..
If the cclip is too narrow then it will allow the inner bearing to move in and out... Don't think that is your problem
Have heard of some folks assembling the bearings in the wrong place... Inner ball bearing on the outside and the roller on the inside...
or both bearings are roller!
Check the Cclip width and the groove... Pop out the inner bearing and check it out.... There should be "0" lateral play nor up and down.
Jim
_________________
69 Baja with a 1914...
72 Super 100% orig...W/ factory air... 56,000mi
Even the spare is original.. |
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brc0703
Samba Member
Joined: May 24, 2010
Posts: 276
Location: Antioch, CA
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| Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:49 am Post subject: |
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| im thinking the outerbearing might be a little worn.. doesnt look like it but when i spin the inner race only the rollers im pushing against roll the rest just slide till i get around and put some force on them.. gona give a new one and hope that solves it.. monument should be calling me anytime when the part gets in |
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Blue69Baja
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Joined: September 04, 2008
Posts: 1115
Location: Fair Oaks
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| Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:43 am Post subject: |
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| brc0703 wrote: |
| im thinking the outerbearing might be a little worn.. doesnt look like it but when i spin the inner race only the rollers im pushing against roll the rest just slide till i get around and put some force on them.. gona give a new one and hope that solves it.. monument should be calling me anytime when the part gets in |
The outer bearing does not have any thing to do with keeping the stub axle from moving in and out... Bad bearings will cause the stub axle to move up and down...
The only thing that locks the stub axle and keeps it from moving in and out is the inner ball bearing!!
If the ball's and race has a problem it will allow in and out movement..
If the Cclip is too thin... and moves in the grove, in and out , that will cause the stub axle to move in and out when you have everything in it's place and torqued down...
If the Inner bearing width is too narrow and the clip does not lock it in place you will have in and out movement of the stub axle.
All the spacers, inner and outer bearing inner races and the drum make up the spacing for the whole assy to fit in the trailing arm axle housing..
The only thing that locks all that it in place is that Cclip and the inner bearing!!!
Jim
_________________
69 Baja with a 1914...
72 Super 100% orig...W/ factory air... 56,000mi
Even the spare is original..
Last edited by Blue69Baja on Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:59 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Blue69Baja
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Joined: September 04, 2008
Posts: 1115
Location: Fair Oaks
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| Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:55 am Post subject: |
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Add a little more to what I am talking about...
If one were to take all the parts required to put the stub axle, bearings, all the spacers and then the drum all together on a bench and tighten up the axle nut all the pieces, spacers, drum stub axle would not move. The inner bearing would be locked in place and you could turn it.... BUT YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO MOVE IT IN AND OUT... THE BALLS ARE LOCKED/TIGHT TOLLERANCES IN THE RACES AND WILL NOT ALLOW ANY IN AND OUT MOVEMENT...
The outer bearing floats on the inner race so you can turn it and actually move the outer race and rollers in and out but the inner race is locked....
Jim
_________________
69 Baja with a 1914...
72 Super 100% orig...W/ factory air... 56,000mi
Even the spare is original.. |
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brc0703
Samba Member
Joined: May 24, 2010
Posts: 276
Location: Antioch, CA
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| Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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| got a new outerbearing and as i was trying to disassemble everything punched right into the cage of the inner ball bearing.. FML.. so 2 new bearings for 1 wheel and if that doesnt do it then im gona try to just ignore it.. been working fine for 6 years just one of those things that everytime you hear it eats at you little by little cuz you know its not right.. |
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Blue69Baja
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Joined: September 04, 2008
Posts: 1115
Location: Fair Oaks
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| Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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| brc0703 wrote: |
| got a new outerbearing and as i was trying to disassemble everything punched right into the cage of the inner ball bearing.. FML.. so 2 new bearings for 1 wheel and if that doesnt do it then im gona try to just ignore it.. been working fine for 6 years just one of those things that everytime you hear it eats at you little by little cuz you know its not right.. |
Ouch! That's easy to do, but you only do it once!
How did you get the Cclip, holding the inner bearing out? Various discussions on that subject... Reversing clip tool is best.
So how did the race and bearings look on the inner bearing?
Check the thickness of the cclip... If it is too thin it will allow slop and the inner bearing will move in and out by the thnner cclip... The cclip must fit thickness wise within about .002...in the groove.
When you get the new inner bearing check the width and see if they are the same.... Old and new.
Gotta make sure you put the spacers back in properly... If you do not know how, ASK!
Jim
_________________
69 Baja with a 1914...
72 Super 100% orig...W/ factory air... 56,000mi
Even the spare is original.. |
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brc0703
Samba Member
Joined: May 24, 2010
Posts: 276
Location: Antioch, CA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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i got the new bearings and put it all back together but still has a little play.. not in and out but when you rock the drum holding at 12 and 6.. not nearly as much as before but there shouldnt be any right? im going to take it back apart and bolt it together off the hub and see if i can find whats giving.. ill take some pics of how i have the spacers and check the c clip and hub also..
really want to fix it.. right now i feel like i wasted $50 and a day of work.. |
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Blue69Baja
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Joined: September 04, 2008
Posts: 1115
Location: Fair Oaks
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| Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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| brc0703 wrote: |
i got the new bearings and put it all back together but still has a little play.. not in and out but when you rock the drum holding at 12 and 6.. not nearly as much as before but there shouldnt be any right? im going to take it back apart and bolt it together off the hub and see if i can find whats giving.. ill take some pics of how i have the spacers and check the c clip and hub also..
really want to fix it.. right now i feel like i wasted $50 and a day of work.. |
Well I know how you feel, wasting time, but lessons are learned...
Play at 12 and 6/ rocking, not in and out, when you have the hub bolt torqued means you have play on the inner or outer roller/ball bearing inner race to the axle....
Normally when inserting the inner and outer bearings in the arm/hub assy you have to drive them in, not too hard but they will be snug... So no play there.
Check your spacers for square to the big center spacer... The mating surfaces should be smooth and flat...
Check your drum fit to the axles splines with no torque on the hub nut.... There should be "0" 12-6 wobble!!! If you have that it may be drum and stub axle time.. If you have play there wear of the splines will continue and then one day..... they will strip.... Clunking will be heard as the wear continues...and wear between the drum and axle nut will occur... you will see the wear when you look at the axle nut matching surface to the drum... Shinny= bad!
How are you torquing the hub nut?
Jim
_________________
69 Baja with a 1914...
72 Super 100% orig...W/ factory air... 56,000mi
Even the spare is original.. |
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brc0703
Samba Member
Joined: May 24, 2010
Posts: 276
Location: Antioch, CA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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the drum is fairly new.. i bought all 4 new maybe 1 1/2 to 2 years ago,, now has both new bearings.. the inner was a tight fit and had to be pressed in but the outer was a tight slip in fit.. light tapping with a rubber mallot.. the stub was a tight fir this time i had to hit it a little to get it through compared to the old bearings i just wiggled it a little..
about the torque of the 36mm nut.. my torque wrench only goes to 150lbs so a while back what i did was rented a 250lbs wrench and used my impact and checked what the torque was for each setting.. when set at 3 it was just about 250.. i made sure i had a full 90psi in the tank and well oiled impact.. so i let the impact do most the work then use a breaker bar with cheater and a long pry bar to hold the hub and tighten till the hole lines up in the castle nut... should be somewhere in the ballpark around 260 |
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brc0703
Samba Member
Joined: May 24, 2010
Posts: 276
Location: Antioch, CA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:27 am Post subject: |
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well still has about .08" of wiggle in it but its a lot better than it was.. i think even my new inner bearing has a little give to it.. with it on the axle stub i get a tiny bit of movement rocking the outer race.. im done with it for now though.. its together and rolling.. thanks for all the help guys.. heres a few pics of what i have
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JerryMCarter1
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Joined: January 07, 2007
Posts: 6199
Location: N.W. Phoenix
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:26 am Post subject: |
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no noise ?
_________________
Experience always triumphs over hearsay and You get to select which theory to believe |
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Q-Dog
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Joined: April 05, 2010
Posts: 8831
Location: Sunset, Louisiana
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:35 am Post subject: |
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I just read through this entire thread and it sounds like the inner surface of the trailing arm is worn or stretched. (or the bearings are undersized, which I doubt) At least, that's my guess. Running the car for a good while with a bad bearing can do this. (There's really no way to know what a previous owner may have done to the car.)
I recall someone else with this issue and their solution was to shim around the bearing. The other option is to replace the trailing arm.
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Brian
'69 Dune Buggy
'69 Beetle Convertible
'70 Beetle |
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