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fastfil
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found this on Penrite Oils Australia's website. They are kind enough to list the zinc content of all their oils (Might be for Oz oils only). Makes choosing my oil much easier. I'll be using their "Running In Oil" initially, and then somewhere between Racing 5 and Racing 15 after that depending on what my oil pressures look like on the the 15w40 running in oil. All have sufficient zinc. Easy!

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 3:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, it's worth poking around their site. They publish full technical specs on all their oils and a lot of other helpful stuff. I believe they have another "Classic Engine" series, but I have used their running in oil and then everyday 15W40 successfully. They don't have the 10W20 my Falcon requires, though. I know they export, but not sure how available it is over there.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone familiar with Quaker States newest oil supposed to be formulated 4 older flat tappet engines?? It's called 'DEFY' ? with added zinc, might be worth checking out 4 those that can access info on oils.
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andk5591 Premium Member
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 4:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having a couple "newer" broken engines repaired and Rotella doesnt cut it. Both engines had a valvetrain fialure and neither had more than 6000 miles on them. I use Rotella usually with a ZDDP additve and lifter bores one both were wore badly enough that they needed redone. These were "new" cases when the engines were built - one 6 years ago and the other about 3 years ago.

Switching to Amsoil synthetic Z-rod immediately on all 5 of my ACVWs.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 5:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Rotella formula was changed 6 years ago so I switched to Brad Penn.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I knew it changed, but thought that the additive would be enough. Oh well, I learned a couple things yesterday. Just wish my lessons weren't so damn expensive.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

andk5591 wrote:
Both engines had a valve train failure and neither had more than 6000 miles on them. lifter bores both were wore badly enough that they needed redone.


What specifically failed? Dual spring? What cam, lifters, rockers, pushrods? Carbs?

I used Rotella up until a few years ago and when the formula changed used STP red with no ill effects in a bus when inspected at 70K miles.

The only rapid wear that you describe Ive only seen in engines with fuel wash that diluted the oil while using crazy competition cams and heavy springs.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 5:30 pm    Post subject: What oil to use Reply with quote

Guys I have had good success with an oil from Walmart called ACCEL it has the proper ZDDP in it for our engines. I've used it in my other air cooled engine (Corvair) for the last 4 years I've haven't had a failure yet. Brad Penn is a good dino oil but at 7 bucks a quart, sure if you don't use your vehicle or drive it much I can see putting it in, but for a daily driver and wanting to save a few pennies you can't beat this oil has good viscosity, and it comes in 10-40. I've heard of some stores carrying 30w but I haven't seen it here. ACCEL 10-40 for 1988 and older engines.

Tom
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 8:27 am    Post subject: Update: Valvoline Tech * engine oil recommendation Reply with quote

This is a good recommendation from Valvoline Tech Support 9/17/2013.

(I was only able to find VR1 in 20W/50 so far, so too thick for me. I still prefer a 15W/40 Diesel Oil as recommended by many samba members, but if i can find VR1 in the same weight, i just might switch to Valvoline Racing VR1)

============================

Q:
feedback type: Which oil should I use for my vehicle?

Comments:

Valvoline, i'm also interested in your heavy duty diesel engine oil.

i have previously used shell rotella T and castrol GTX 15W/40 diesel oils in my 1968 VW Squareback on advice from the same VW forum crowd due to high ZDDP content, etc. was wondering how your diesel oil stacks up too?

thanks,
andrejs



Most Recent Update:


A:
Good evening Andrejs, thank you for contacting Valvoline Product Support.

Concerning the use of diesel oil in your 1968 VW, is the model a gasoline or diesel engine? Our diesel oil currently has 1200 ppm (parts per million) zinc, which is considerably higher than our normal Premium Conventional Motor Oil product.

If your vehicle is a gasoline engine, we recommend the use of our Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil. This product has a higher level of zinc than our diesel oils, a level of 1400 ppm which is preferred for older engines that require a high zinc for the cam and lifters.

Though diesel oil is higher in zinc that most motor oils, it is not necessarily recommended for a gasoline engine. Diesel oil has a much more aggressive additive package due to how diesel oil burns, and these types of additives are unnecessary for a gasoline engine.

If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact us via phone at 800 TEAM VAL or by email at [email protected] for assistance.

Thank you and have a great day.
Erik
Valvoline Product Support

My reply back:


thanks for the info erik!

i'm actually going to pass this on to the samba for all to hopefully benefit.

as far as the diesel oils go, vw aircooled enthusiasts, even porsche fans,
---all non-diesel cars---and have adopted them. for a few reasons.

these cars used to typically call for monograde HD30 or HD20 in the winter. old service grade mono-grades used to be heavy duty and contain detergents and zinc, phosphorus, etc. and used to be more reliable.

today, mono-grades have de-graded dramatically, have been re-formulated like everything else, and now multi-grades are blended better for various applications.

so, it is the 15W/40 weight characteristic of diesel engine oils that VW fans have adopted. along with the added lubrication and detergent properties of yesteryear.

i may try the VR1. however the 50 side of the grade might prove too thick in the summer were a 30W is recommended. I was only able to find VR1 int 20W/50 in my area. 40W is already a little thicker of the 15W/40. i don't want to go too thick in an engine that relies on the circulation of air and oil to cool itself.

hopefully this info helps you understand your fan base more too.

regards,
andrejs
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kingodirtp3
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use vr1 racing oil in 10w30, oreilly's sells it, it full synthetic. works great.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 3:08 pm    Post subject: Valvoline VR1 Reply with quote

kingodirt:

cool. good to know someone tried the VR1 and dug it.
i might try the 10w30 or 20w50 next time, then.

i actually just spoke to a gentleman on the phone
over at brad penn. the senior tech advisor.

i decided to try Brad Penn 1 - 15W40 Racing oil this time around.
got a few quarts from Autoplicity online.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 7:50 am    Post subject: Kendall GT-1 oil & Brad Penn Reply with quote

i just wanted to clarify something i learned the other day.
some folks say that brad penn bought the old kendall factory along with its old formula.

others say that kendall moved, took a hiatus, and now the new silver bottle GT-1 is in question.

i emailed kendall and spoke to brad penn.
this time, i decided to buy/try brad penn for the first time.

so, i'm not being biased here. just trying to clear up some urban myths/legends. and i might actually try the new kendall next.

1) brad penn did buy the old kendall factory in branford, PA.
but manufactures their own line of very nice oils, great for our VWs.
and they are using pennsylvania crude. it is green. but it is not the kendall formula, it is brad penn's own blend of special chemistry.

2) kendall has moved to the midwest. and the GT-1 is now in a silver bottle. and marketed as Liquid Titanium. they tell me it is the same formula.
but 20W50 is the best for aircooled VWs. highest ZDDP levels. it is now manufactured by Phillips66/Conoco.

i am eager to try them both, instead of the castrol and rotella diesels i've been running. learned that some feel the detergent packages in the diesel oils might be too aggressive for old VW engines, even though the zinc and 15W40 weights are perfect.

==========

to RSC:Lubricants
Friday 9/20/13



How does the new Kendall "liquid titanium" GT-1 compare to the old formula Brad Penn is making now, since the sell/trade of the name, factory and pennsylvania oil supply?

i have a 1968 VW. Kendall used to be THE name for good aircooled engine oils from the 1960s to 1990s. Now Brad Penn is on everyone's lips more, and Kendall - just not there yet again after a hiatus.

How's the Kendall ZDDP levels, zinc, phosphorus, etc. that our older engines still crave?

Is Kendall still relevant in the VW and racing world, or just for taxi fleets as the website boasts?



from RSC:Lubricants



to me
Friday 9/20/13


Andrejs,
 
We have maintained the Kendall formula all of these years. 
Brad Penn has the original Kendall factory and does manufactured racing oils.
 
The high ZDDP oil for older motors is our Kendall GT-1 High Performance 20W-50.  This product is recommended for competition and street racing vehicles, as well as for older motors for flat tappets. 

Please let me know if you have any additional questions.
 
Thanks,
 
Michael * Product Specialist 
Phillips 66 

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jim at Archway in St Louis recommends Valvoline VR-1 20w50. He has been in the business for over 40 yrs and I trust his opinion.

I broke in my new engine, changed the nasty break in oil, refilled with VR-1 and ran the heck out of it up and down every hill I could find. After 65 miles, no change in color. After 160 miles, still golden. Temps were great and lots of power.

VR-1 isn't expensive and I found it at Auto zone too. But, I like going to see Jim too. Smile
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You guys need to read more. 20W-50 is too damn thick for a VW. I run Brad Penn or Valvoline VR-1 10W-30 in my street legal VW's and straight 30W in my race car.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RedBaronofRedBud wrote:
Jim at Archway in St Louis recommends Valvoline VR-1 20w50. He has been in the business for over 40 yrs and I trust his opinion.

You shouldn't trust his opinion. 20W-50 is the WRONG oil for a NEW engine, especially in cool fall weather.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AlteWagen wrote:
andk5591 wrote:
Both engines had a valve train failure and neither had more than 6000 miles on them. lifter bores both were wore badly enough that they needed redone.


What specifically failed? Dual spring? What cam, lifters, rockers, pushrods? Carbs?

I used Rotella up until a few years ago and when the formula changed used STP red with no ill effects in a bus when inspected at 70K miles.

The only rapid wear that you describe Ive only seen in engines with fuel wash that diluted the oil while using crazy competition cams and heavy springs.


Lifter bores on both and excessive cam wear on one engine. Never had gas in oil in either engine. Neither engine is remotely radical, except for running 1.4 rockers.

I process of switching all cars over to Amsoil. HAve also heard that VR-1 is a good choice, but have also heard or read that it doesn't contain all the additiives needed for a street car, but I cant verify that. What the builder is speculating is that on older engines that had been run with higher zinc oil is that the lifter bores may have work hardened somewhat and the case materials were also a little different. What he is seeing the wear on are new aftermaket cases - like from the last few years.
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Quokka42
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Racing oils tend not to have the corrosion inhibitors or detergent of street oils, apart from that they do run higher levels of zinc as they are not limited by the law, only practical benefit. Many appear to have run them long term on the street, but only try it if you change your oil quite regularly. Many racers also periodically run a diesel oil through to clean the engine out a bit - but not under race conditions.

Zinc won't work-harden magnesium alloy, unfortunately, the chemistry just isn't there.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bruce wrote:
RedBaronofRedBud wrote:
Jim at Archway in St Louis recommends Valvoline VR-1 20w50. He has been in the business for over 40 yrs and I trust his opinion.

You shouldn't trust his opinion. 20W-50 is the WRONG oil for a NEW engine, especially in cool fall weather.

Ditto that. The best opinion to listen to is your engine itself, talking to you by the oil pressure. I built my engine to new factory specs with a stock oil pump, and even 5w30 was a little on the high side, so I thinned it out with a quart of 5w20. I did try VR1 and liked it, even used it as my assembly lube. I now use Castrol Edge with no additives. Oil pressure is still the same after almost 30,000 miles.

Paul
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

andk5591 wrote:
Lifter bores on both and excessive cam wear on one engine. Never had gas in oil in either engine. Neither engine is remotely radical, except for running 1.4 rockers.


I would guess that your lifter bore wear was a corrosion problem and not a lube problem. Lubrication wise, I wouldn't think that anything besides viscosity would matter here.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 1:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vwracerdave wrote:
You guys need to read more. 20W-50 is too damn thick for a VW. I run Brad Penn or Valvoline VR-1 10W-30 in my street legal VW's and straight 30W in my race car.


Why do almost all drag cars featured in VW Trends list 20w50 as their oil?
As long as you get your 10 psi per 1000 rpm can't you run it?

Again why is the 20w50 the most common used by the racers?
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