Which engine to buy

Mikeweaver · Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 6:40 pm Post subject: Which engine to buy

So I am thinking about restoring an early bay, I was looking at project campers and some didn't have Engines, I was wondering if I should buya used 1600 dp engine off this website or one of the fancy new ones that is in the "vendors" category. I have noticed some very expensive ones that say turnkey engine in the title, what is the difference and why are these so expensive? Is there a different website where I should buy an engine? Cost is a concern but if it is a big difference I can spend a little more.

Advice?
Thank you

old DKP driver · Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 6:58 pm Post subject: engine

Welcome

So I take it you do not have an engine for a core or a build?
_________________
V.W.owner since 1967

Mikeweaver · Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 7:04 pm Post subject:

No I have no engine right now and I don't have a van yet either, I am only asking to know how to restore a project before I buy it so that I go in with some knowledge.

richparker · Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 7:16 pm Post subject:

I bought a used 1600DP off this site for my first engine and it was a turnkey. It set me back $1000 with no warrenty. I drove it for 2 years before I had it built into one of those big motors you see. Much happier with the big engine but if I bought a big engine first it would have ate up my budget. I also bought a transaxle from the same guy. I still run it to this day, he sold me a good one. Good luck.
_________________
__________
’71 Westy build
Adventure thread
’65 Deluxe Build

Skoolieman · Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 7:18 pm Post subject:

It all depends on budget and what your plan for the bus is.

I got my motor for a hundred bucks out of a smashed beetle and after going through it have driven 8k miles without issue. The type 1 motors are relatively easy to work with and determine the health of. Buying a turnkey motor might get you a lot of flashy parts but who knows what is going on inside of the motor. No matter which route you go, make sure the motor has the mounting bosses for the moustache bar. My suggestion would be to read as many threads here as possible before jumping in so you can be armed with knowledge before exchanging any cash. It sucks to get burned so if you know what you are looking at you will be better off.
_________________
'69 Westfalia Camper~Cassidy
1600dp with H30/31 carb 009 distributor and alternator conversion

Danwvw · Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 7:26 pm Post subject:

If you get a type 1 engine be sure it's got the 3 holes in the case for the Bay Window VW Bus Mustache Bar!

Good to see your questions, The 1968,1969,1970 had single port 1600 engines. The 1971 had a Dual Port 1600 with the Dog-House fan shroud improved fan and cooling system. Aluminum air cooler. The 1972 was the first year for the type 4 (Porsche like) VW bus engine. It was 1700 cc's then the next year they went to 1800cc which is very well liked by late bay bus owners then the 2 Liter which is also compatible with 1972-1979 Buses.

The 1971 VW bus was the first year for front disc brakes but the last year for the Type 1 engine in the bus.

You can get something cheap if you want like a $2000 dollar Type 1 engine 1600 based. Meaning it could be a 1585cc stock, 1641cc, 1679 in a dual port engine. They are OK, will move the bus down the highway at 75mph Maximum speed until you come to a hill or a head wind. and if built right are dependable for about 50000 miles some people not many can get more miles on an engine build.
The first upgrade everyone likes to do because it's easy cheap and dirty is the 1776cc engine for the bus. It does not increase stroke so for it to put out much needed power the bus needs to rev a little more with it.
I chose the 1800 cc type 1 engine, It uses a Porsche 356/912 stroke crank which is 5mm longer than the stock 69mm vw. Other than that it's pretty much straight up Stock VW build with the only special machine work being the Piston skirts must be narrowed. It also requires the same heads that the 1776cc engine uses. I put dual carbs on mine, and the combination moves the bus quite nicely. Still pretty much drive at only a comfortable 65 mph on the open road, but it will pass with ease in passing lanes and pulls most hills that it used to have to go to third gear on in fourth gear now.
Old 1641 that was in my bus:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

New 1800cc type 1 in my bus:

_________________
1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

Mikeweaver · Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 7:44 pm Post subject:

Thank you this has been very helpful, it sounds like a used engine will work fine but I will have to do more research, especially on this moustache that I am just now hearing about

Danwvw · Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 7:54 pm Post subject:

Do you have your bus? What year is it? What all is missing in the engine compartment?
Transaxle?
Engine?
Engine Tin?
Mustache Bar?
Rear Engine Mounts?
Rear Apron?
Bumper?
_________________
1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

ultralite · Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 8:15 pm Post subject:

My first Westy (assuming there will be more? Very Happy

) is an early Bay and the previous owner put a 1776 in it. I love that combo. The Type 1 engine has been great for me to learn on, and we've enjoyed doing the work ourselves.

With the 1776 it seems I have all the highway speed I need as well as hill climbing ability. I'm assuming that since you're in NC you'll likely make it to the mountains. We've travelled those mountains many times just fine in ours. IMO, it's the best vehicle in the world for that trip.

Good luck with your hunt. It can feel a little intimidating at first, just keep plugging away at the learning curve. All the different displacements have their trade-offs.
_________________
Godspeed

'76 Beetle (sold)
'69 Beetle (sold)
'72 BMW 2002 (RIP)
'69 Westy
'02 BMW wagon AWD w/stick shift(sold)
'67 Beetle (sold)

Wildthings · Samba Member Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 52394

If you can afford it and want to put a lot of miles on your new engine before you have to spend money on it again go with a rebuild from someone like Headflow Masters or Aircooled.net. They are going to cost more but should last a whole lot longer.

Danwvw · Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 10:33 pm Post subject:

Something like this engine: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1650659 would be a good start. It has all the engine tin (including the Bus rear tin)but it's been set up with dual carbs instead of a stock PICT 34/3 Solex Carb. Not too big a deal though. Looks like it may be a pretty good buy, Depends on if the end play is ok. and it will still start up and run. It's got a Alternator which is a Plus, It will have the 3 point mount holes on the case. Just needs the mustache bar and motor mounts etc... But it would be a good find for one to rebuild or to have rebuilt.
_________________
1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

curtis4085 · Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 10:43 pm Post subject:

Give Adrian at www.Headflowmasters.com in Vista,CA. He ships all over the world. Adrian could build you a long block or turnkey engine. He's highly respected in the VW community as he knows his craft well. He's and affordable quality option.
_________________
Special Thanks to:
Headflow Masters - Vista, CA
www.headflowmasters.com

Andy70Bus · Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 7:11 am Post subject: Mustache bar

Hi Mikeweaver,

Just for clarity, the "mustache bar" referred to is a bar that runs across the back of the bus engine compartment, and sits on the 2 rear motor mounts holding up the rear of the engine. It is bolted to the engine with 3 mounting bolts in the center rear of the case, under the timing pulley (and under the rear tin). It comes in and out of the bus WITH the engine. Engine cases made for beetles DO NOT have these 3 mounting bolt holes, so they require some kind of adapter to fit in a bus. Other than these 3 mounting holes, a beetle case is the same as a bus case.

I also second the comment about Adrian Audirac of Headflow Masters, he's fantastic to work with - I recently had one of his 1915cc engines shipped from California to New York without a hitch.

Good Luck!

Tcash · Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 8:23 am Post subject:

Mikeweaver · Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 8:27 am Post subject:

Thank you all, this has clarified a lot, so as long as I have the correct mount I can put a beetle engine in a bus? Also is a turnkey engine different from a regular engine?

Tcash · Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 8:48 am Post subject:

VW dictionary

curtis4085 · Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 9:07 am Post subject:

Wildthings · Samba Member Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 52394

Danwvw · Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 11:52 am Post subject:

Thought I was more clear. A Bug case will not fit into a Bay Window Bus. But a Bay window bus case will fit into a bug. The reason is that the Bay window bus case has a special 3 point rear mount provision that the bug case is missing.
See the first photo:
Now someone is going to come along now and say you can just use an adaptor, to make a bug case fit the bay window bus and it would be this Beetle to Bus Engine Mount Adapter but you still need the Mustache Bar and I would not think the Engine adapters are very good. Probably make your oil pump leak and you could not put any kind of better oil pump in or full flow cover etc with it on there.
This is an interesting thread here: Installing a type 1 (upright cooling) engine in a 72+ bus

Bus Case: A universal case will fit a Bus too because it has these 3 mount holes.

A Bug Case: Note the missing Mount holes.

_________________
1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!


Hello! Log in or Register \| Help \| Donate \| Buy Shirts	See all banner ads \| Advertise on TheSamba.com

	Forum Index -> Bay Window Bus	All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page 1 of 1