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vw4wd
Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2011
Posts: 162
Location: Somerset, UK
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 Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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While you guys have had these roofs dismantled for the transfer, has anyone ever weighed them? I would be interested to know the weight of the elevating section of the roof.
Why? - because I can't find a roof that meets my needs and so I am thinking of building my own. Having the weight of a production roof would give me a target to aim for or, better still, beat.
cheers
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Garyd
1990 Transporter syncro camper with 2 litre AGG 'GTi' engine |
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DAV!D
Samba Member
Joined: September 10, 2013
Posts: 980
Location: EL CAMINO
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| Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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| vw4wd wrote: |
While you guys have had these roofs dismantled for the transfer, has anyone ever weighed them? I would be interested to know the weight of the elevating section of the roof.
Why? - because I can't find a roof that meets my needs and so I am thinking of building my own. Having the weight of a production roof would give me a target to aim for or, better still, beat.
cheers |
I'm about to pull mine off, but I have no way to weigh it. As far as building your own, I'm also going down this path but as a raised roof pop top. There are a few ideas on my build topic on it.
Also I guess I'll add a link to the starting point of my pop top swap, now that I'm under way..
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=616167&start=180
I wasn't sure which way I'd go with my swap hence the reason for starting this topic.. After I started drilling out spot welds I decided it really isn't that bad. It took a bit of time to drill the welds inside the van due to drilling at odd angles. However I drilled out 95% of the drip rail spot welds in about 2 hours today.
Being it's not to bad, I've opted to do the swap via the drip rails but I'll cut the roof somewhere in the front section rather than get into the front windshield area. I'll be posting my progress in my build topic. (pop top swap starts on page 10)
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86 Syncro Build - Ecotec Motor Swap - Pop Top Conversion - Camper Build & Syncro Conversion |
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vw4wd
Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2011
Posts: 162
Location: Somerset, UK
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| Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the comments, David.
If you got the roof off, would it stand upright (on the back edge) on a set of bathroom scales? I would expect that they would have sufficient capacity/range and be 'accurate' enough for my purposes.
With your raised - elevating roof, are you thinking of extending the sides down or cutting out the centre flat section and adding a dome top?
thanks
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Garyd
1990 Transporter syncro camper with 2 litre AGG 'GTi' engine |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32987
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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Merian
Samba Member
Joined: January 04, 2014
Posts: 5212
Location: Orygun
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| Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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| hold the roof and step onto a scale, then take your wt. w/no roof |
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davevickery
Samba Member
Joined: July 16, 2005
Posts: 2887
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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| vw4wd wrote: |
While you guys have had these roofs dismantled for the transfer, has anyone ever weighed them? I would be interested to know the weight of the elevating section of the roof.
Why? - because I can't find a roof that meets my needs and so I am thinking of building my own. Having the weight of a production roof would give me a target to aim for or, better still, beat. |
Kind of off topic, but the fiberglass sections are not that heavy. On my last one, I leaned some 2x4s up against the top of the tailgate when I was fitting mine by myself and could easily lift it up onto the 2x4s, and use the 2x4s to slide it up into place. I did that several times while trying to line everything up. So my guess, rear section, 110 lbs, front luggage rack, 20 lbs. The weight of a camper vs. a passenger van is 360 lb difference, I think, so 130 to 150 for the fiberglass is definitely in the range. The bed platform and mattress probably adds another 25.
| DAV!D wrote: |
I wasn't sure which way I'd go with my swap hence the reason for starting this topic.. After I started drilling out spot welds I decided it really isn't that bad. It took a bit of time to drill the welds inside the van due to drilling at odd angles. However I drilled out 95% of the drip rail spot welds in about 2 hours today.
Being it's not to bad, I've opted to do the swap via the drip rails but I'll cut the roof somewhere in the front section rather than get into the front windshield area. I'll be posting my progress in my build topic. (pop top swap starts on page 10) |
David, I am thinking of going the other way. The small overlap method appeals to me because it looks like finishing it once the top is in place is less work. I'll cut the front under the luggage rack same as most people and trim as close to the hinges in the back as possible. I think an inch overlap is what I'm going for on the sides, somewhere under the where the top sits. I am thinking the overlap will keep more crap out of the inside of the van (just guessing) and if I don't go out to the gutters I have less painting to do (both vans are pastel white). The extra time to drill spot welds really wasn't a deal breaker for me, just seems like the small overlap will work better in my case.
Thanks to everyone that posted their methods, that was very helpful. |
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DAV!D
Samba Member
Joined: September 10, 2013
Posts: 980
Location: EL CAMINO
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| Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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| davevickery wrote: |
David, I am thinking of going the other way. The small overlap method appeals to me because it looks like finishing it once the top is in place is less work. I'll cut the front under the luggage rack same as most people and trim as close to the hinges in the back as possible. I think an inch overlap is what I'm going for on the sides, somewhere under the where the top sits. I am thinking the overlap will keep more crap out of the inside of the van (just guessing) and if I don't go out to the gutters I have less painting to do (both vans are pastel white). The extra time to drill spot welds really wasn't a deal breaker for me, just seems like the small overlap will work better in my case.
Thanks to everyone that posted their methods, that was very helpful. |
I do agree that way doesn't seem too bad and it might end up the way I go. I ran into a slight issue while dismantling the Westy.. I can't get the rear hatch bolts loose. If I can't get them out I won't be able to remove the entire roof skin as I had planned. If that happens I will likely just go with the overlap style install.
My only personal dislike of the overlap method, is the rear hinge supports. I don't like the idea of tacking them to the sheet metal or just using flat plates. To me that's really not giving much support to the hinge.
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86 Syncro Build - Ecotec Motor Swap - Pop Top Conversion - Camper Build & Syncro Conversion |
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davevickery
Samba Member
Joined: July 16, 2005
Posts: 2887
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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| DAV!D wrote: |
My only personal dislike of the overlap method, is the rear hinge supports. I don't like the idea of tacking them to the sheet metal or just using flat plates. To me that's really not giving much support to the hinge. |
I'm not trying to convince you, since I have no idea myself, but it looks like they use the stock hinge mounts cutting around and in back of them then leave a few inches of rear hatch in place like this pic. I don't know if you can overlap the rear, or if it is just easier to weld. This looks pretty much exactly like what I want to do.
Even if you go all the way out to the gutters, cutting at the front and rear like this seems like the simplest option with very little downside.
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DAV!D
Samba Member
Joined: September 10, 2013
Posts: 980
Location: EL CAMINO
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| Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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| davevickery wrote: |
| DAV!D wrote: |
My only personal dislike of the overlap method, is the rear hinge supports. I don't like the idea of tacking them to the sheet metal or just using flat plates. To me that's really not giving much support to the hinge. |
I'm not trying to convince you, since I have no idea myself, but it looks like they use the stock hinge mounts cutting around and in back of them then leave a few inches of rear hatch in place like this pic. I don't know if you can overlap the rear, or if it is just easier to weld. This looks pretty much exactly like what I want to do.
Even if you go all the way out to the gutters, cutting at the front and rear like this seems like the simplest option with very little downside.
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My thinking of that method in the rear was to cut the recipient roof at the raised body section and beyond to fit in the rear hinge & support properly then overlap everything else, or at least cut the sections for the hinge & support.
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86 Syncro Build - Ecotec Motor Swap - Pop Top Conversion - Camper Build & Syncro Conversion |
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davevickery
Samba Member
Joined: July 16, 2005
Posts: 2887
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 10:14 am Post subject: |
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How do people move this wiring. This is the wires just above the front seats that I think needs to go inside the channel. You don't have to cut and splice it do you?
Thanks
Dave |
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DAV!D
Samba Member
Joined: September 10, 2013
Posts: 980
Location: EL CAMINO
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| Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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| davevickery wrote: |
How do people move this wiring. This is the wires just above the front seats that I think needs to go inside the channel. You don't have to cut and splice it do you?
Thanks
Dave |
After you cut the roof off the tintop you route the wiring before putting the new pop top sheet metal in place and let it exit somewhere in the back. Around the center pillar I also knocked a small hole in the metal support if I remember correctly to let the wires go through.
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86 Syncro Build - Ecotec Motor Swap - Pop Top Conversion - Camper Build & Syncro Conversion |
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specialev
Samba Member
Joined: March 25, 2011
Posts: 282
Location: Mukilteo WA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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| There's a finisher piece there that covers that wiring if you had the part. It's the fascia piece that the vents clip to. I just routed my wires behind that. I'm pretty sure that's how the westy I got the roof off was built as well. |
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davevickery
Samba Member
Joined: July 16, 2005
Posts: 2887
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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| DAV!D wrote: |
After you cut the roof off the tintop you route the wiring before putting the new pop top sheet metal in place ... |
Thanks, I'm done cutting, I kept the brace on the passenger van and cut away the brace on the westy top, so there is no way to lift out the wires and move them at this point. I can always cut and resplice them if need be.
| specialev wrote: |
| There's a finisher piece there that covers that wiring if you had the part. It's the fascia piece that the vents clip to. I just routed my wires behind that. I'm pretty sure that's how the westy I got the roof off was built as well. |
Thanks, the westy had the wiring coming in front of the front brace, and the passenger van has the wire behind the front brace and trapped inside that reinforcement piece. They must have moved it on the westy because it is in the way of where the poptop latch mounts. I'll see if there is room to tuck it under there somewhere, I do have all the Westy trim pieces.
My next post is going to be about the problem of getting the roof tin to lie flat while I try to apply adhesive. I can see why people just choose to weld the entire seam. |
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pbrown
Samba Member
Joined: July 15, 2008
Posts: 537
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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I just finished my pop top conversion. The only thing left is to mount the luggage rack. Is there a trick to figuring out where to drill the holes for the four brackets?
I also need to source a camper headliner to use as a template.
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Patrick Brown
1986 Westy Syncro EJ25
Flickr --> https://flic.kr/s/aHsmQNUXEF |
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jstar89crx
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2005
Posts: 156
Location: Bellingham WA
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| Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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Did you purchase a donor van for the top and parts or just buy the fiberglass pieces?
I cut off the front section of the donor van roof and set it on top of the keeper van roof to mark the holes for the cargo box. If you don't have the donor roof I know I saw dimensions from someone in one of the other conversion threads from a few years ago.
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86 Syncro, weekender carat interior, the rest is bone stock for now
SOLD:91 Westy, BEW TDI with VNT17 Turbo, water cooled intercooler, Malone Tune, taller 3rd and 4th. |
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pbrown
Samba Member
Joined: July 15, 2008
Posts: 537
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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I don't have the whole donor van. I had the camper sheet metal starting from just in front of the B-pillar to the back plus the fiber glass parts and misc hardware.
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Patrick Brown
1986 Westy Syncro EJ25
Flickr --> https://flic.kr/s/aHsmQNUXEF |
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16CVs
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2004
Posts: 4298
Location: Redwood City, California
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| Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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Don't forget that you have to remove the headliner clips from above the doors before installing the headliner panel.
Stacy
_________________
1987 Syncro Westfalia Triple knob (bastard)
1989 Syncro Tristar Triple knob "Swedish"
2013 Jetta Hybrid a true "Zwitter"
Samba member # 14980
Call anytime number 650 722 4914 .
Keep Your van running and upkept tastefully for the love of the hobby.
Don't let your van end up in an "abortions" thread. |
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BavarianWrench
Samba Member
Joined: January 18, 2004
Posts: 1046
Location: Oceans Edge
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| Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 6:32 am Post subject: |
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| jstar89crx wrote: |
Did you purchase a donor van for the top and parts or just buy the fiberglass pieces?
I cut off the front section of the donor van roof and set it on top of the keeper van roof to mark the holes for the cargo box. If you don't have the donor roof I know I saw dimensions from someone in one of the other conversion threads from a few years ago. |
I used the method Jstar89crx used, worked perfect and I saved the donor front skin/template. Anybody in Denver feel free to borrow it. When researching how folks were doing this step, I found this method. I was going to use it then just cut the remaining skin off, making it a template. The method is to bolt the mounting tabs to the fiberglass top. Then apply double sided tape to the bottom of the tabs where they contact the roof. Install the fiberglass top with the tabs. The tabs stick to the roof skin. It is recommended that you do not rely on the tape to hold down your front luggage compartment . You should then remove the bolts holding the fiberglass top to the tabs. Then lift the luggage compartment out of the way. This then leaves the tabs in place to be bolted down where they stick. |
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davevickery
Samba Member
Joined: July 16, 2005
Posts: 2887
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 6:42 am Post subject: |
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| I just used duct tape and adjusted them around until they were right behind the holes. |
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pbrown
Samba Member
Joined: July 15, 2008
Posts: 537
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 10:36 am Post subject: |
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Thanks guys. I think I'll be able to use one of those tricks to figure out where the holes go.
One of the issues I have with this camper conversion is figuring out where things go in relation to the inside roof. It's hard to find interior photos of campers that show the roof.
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Patrick Brown
1986 Westy Syncro EJ25
Flickr --> https://flic.kr/s/aHsmQNUXEF |
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