Beam disassembly / reassembly

[Max Welton]

Perfect.

Max
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1967 Type-3 Fastback
Under the Knife https://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=151582
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[Max Welton]

[Brent]

I think oil impregnated bronze for bearing use would be the better material choice.
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69 Fastback Build
Berg5 Build

[Max Welton]

Actually I'm thinking a common 35x42x20 HK bearing inside an aluminum (or maybe bronze) shell to bring the OD out to 44mm.

I know the aluminum will only be 1mm thick, but I think if we start by boring the 42mm hole, then pressing the bearing into that before turning down the outside it might be doable.

PS: 1mm seems about tin-can thickness.

Max
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1967 Type-3 Fastback
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Home Stretch https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=767836

[Max Welton]

It's like Christmas all over again.

First, my oil-impregnated bronze arrived. My local VW machinist is going to turn some of it into a pair of inner bushings.

http://www.maxwelton2k.net/squareback68/t3beam/20160129_151102.html

And I have a box of brand new Chinese 35x44x20 needle bearings to use for outer bearings. They fit nice.

I got 10, so I don't much care if they don't last 40 years like the originals.

http://www.maxwelton2k.net/squareback68/t3beam/20160129_183349.html

Max
_________________
1967 Type-3 Fastback
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[69sback]

Thanks Max for keeping this thread alive. To recap my story, I have worn out upper inner bushings which are ruining my upper control arms. I said in feb '15, I would do the job to replace the inner bushings with the ISPwest bushings, but I never got around to it. I have new arms and everything and the ISP white bushing kit, just didn't have the time. But now I do and I'd like to knock this out before I ruin the beam and before fishing season starts...

So you found some outer upper needle bearings...that's awesome. But why not use the ISP west "bushing"? I do like the idea of using the needle bearings tho...can I buy some off you? ))))

So.... the inner bushings you replaced with the ISP kit....did they hold up? Why are you replacing them with the oil-bronze bushings if they held up for 4 years?

Thanks
David

[69sback]

also...Max, do you mind posting a photo of your makeshift tool you used to push out the outer needle bearings?

[Max Welton]

The pictures I got so far are at

http://www.maxwelton2k.net/squareback68/t3beam/index.html

The tool I used to push the outer bears out is just a steel tube and a bolt with the head shaved down to make a "hat".

http://www.maxwelton2k.net/squareback68/t3beam/20160103_131937.html

http://www.maxwelton2k.net/squareback68/t3beam/20160103_131948.html

http://www.maxwelton2k.net/squareback68/t3beam/20160103_132015.html

Basically I insert the rod/hat in one end of the tube. The rod reaches through the tube so that the hat rests on the inside of the far outer bearing. Give the end of the rod a few raps with a 3 lb hammer, then move the hat to another position on the bearing. Repeat. I was able to walk the needle bearing out without any damage.

I still need to make something to get the failed ISP inners out of the beam. They clearly didn't hold up so I wouldn't ever use those again.

Max
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1967 Type-3 Fastback
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Home Stretch https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=767836

[69sback]

Thanks for the photos Max...is your car lowered? maybe that's putting undue stress on the inner bushings?

[Max Welton]

No, not lowered. Not much at least. It's a Colorado four season driver after all.

Max
_________________
1967 Type-3 Fastback
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[69sback]

nice looking square...

are you not able to use your the steel rod with a hat to push out ISP west bushings? I'm really curious to see what they look like. I was about to put them in this weekend, but I might wait to see how bad yours look after 4 years of daily driving...

[Max Welton]

Dunno. I'll have a chance to work on this Saturday.

Max
_________________
1967 Type-3 Fastback
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Home Stretch https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=767836

[69sback]

I did the job on my square this past Saturday...

The needle bearings came out easily which I re-used. The inner bakelite and metal bushings did not come out easily. One side I used a sharpened chisel, the other side I used a hacksaw blade. The chisel gouged the inside of the beam, which I later then sanded down. The hacksaw blade was the best option. On either side the bakelite came out in pieces. I don't think I ever got the metal bushings out, they fell inside the beam never to be seen again.

After removing bakelite pieces, I tried to clean as well as I could, but I'm sure there is still crap in there which will ruin my needle bearings.

As well as sanding down the regions I gouged with the metal chisel, I also had to sand down the region around the grease nipples.

Once the sanding was complete, pushing in the ISP west plastic bushing was easy. Re-installing the needle bearing was also super easy.

I was very liberal with the grease and immediately greased both sides.

After adjusting the tension bolt to about 10-15lbs the arms moved up and down with no lateral play! So happy. The car handles so much better.

Given the fact I could not clean it out as well as I should have, it probably won't last forever but I'm happy with it for now...


here you can see the three stops for the inner bushing...

on the right side you can see the material buildup from the grease nipple

[Max Welton]

[Max Welton]

I promised pictures...

Left to right; one of the ISP West bushings I removed, an original from a 71 beam and one of my oil impregnated bronze replacements. Notice how much shorter the ISP bushing is.

OD comparisons:

For installation I used a 3-lb hammer with this home-made driver.

Even with a wood driver, the ID of the bushings closed up just enough to require some reaming in-situ. I was pleasantly surprised with this adjustable reamer set from Harbor Freight.

http://www.harborfreight.com/11-piece-adjustable-hand-reamer-set-38577.html

Max

Max
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[ataraxia]

While I'd agree that the width of the ISP bushing isn't quite enough, the diameter could have been from whatever beam they used to get the ID...and that's where the problem may have started.

The assumption is that all of the beams have the same ID for a given production range but I'd be willing to believe that simply isn't true.

I had four beams, all early style with the stop welded to the beam, and had three different sets of dimensions...one of which is still without bushings now due to this lack of consistency. It also doesn't have internal stops for the inner bushings - which I found to be odd. I removed it from the car - original to that car - but it's an odd one. I'm either going to go back to OE parts or will just replace it with a different beam given its limitations.

So, if ISP used an odd beam or two for the ID, that might explain why the bushings didn't fit quite right...not fact, but a guess as to why it might be the case.

The quality control on these beams wasn't as good as people think - same reason the OE bakelite bushings had to be reamed after installation.

[Max Welton]

With the ability to have bronze inner bushings made locally and to obtain the weird-sized outer needle bearings from the Chinese, I will never have to worry about finding NOS or good used originals again. To me that is worth the extra cost.

Max
_________________
1967 Type-3 Fastback
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[ataraxia]

I'm not knocking what you did at all...just throwing out a couple of factors that likely lead up to the failure of the isp parts.

[Max Welton]

PS: before driving inner bushings out of the beam, remember to remove the two grease fittings. They can protrude into the beam and interfere with the bushing as you try to drive it out. That is what did much of the damage to the pictured original bushing

Max
_________________
1967 Type-3 Fastback
Under the Knife https://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=151582
Home Stretch https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=767836

[Max Welton]