Rear shoulder belts-Pics of real conversions

[manikmike]

Some good related info here:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6288479&highlight=#6288479

These look relatively easy to fabricate, if I can figure out the dimensions.
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Mike
Boston, MA

[campinpoptop]

I'm also looking for a proper solution for mounting rear shoulder belts, and am looking for feedback on mounting a plate above the window, and using a seat belt with the extension you see in other commuter type vans. Are folks avoiding this set up becasue the metal isn't strong enough above the window?

Any thoughts or feedback is appreciated.

Thanks,
Steve
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1978 Bay Window Stock F.I.
1970 Stock F.I. Squareback

[obnoxiousblue]

I'm not sure if someone already said this, but I wanted to interject... Having worked on an ambulance for several years, and having seen many wrecks...

Just because you can "engineer" a way to put a belt where it is convinient, doesnt mean that it will work the way you think.
Belt anchors and locations are tied into stratiegic locations within the body of a vehicle that are intended to help displace force (and absorb it) in the event of an accident.

You will surely say that "anything is better than nothing" though, thats not entirely true. By creating your own brackets you potentially circumvent the displacement of force in a collision, and at that create a hazard of the mount failing and coming off, as a projectile in a collision.

I SERIOUSLY RESPECT your want for your kids to enjoy the bus, and the hobby and admire you for wanting to try and find a way to make it more safe for them to enjoy...

But I emplore you to please consider that while the Bus is NOWHERE NEAR as safe, or as engineered for safety as a modern car, you may want to just use the bung already installed in the bus.

There are certainly people on this site that understand welding, force displacement, and can meld the two worlds to help you find a safe place to try and install belts... Even those style you refer to in newer cars, with the factory extensions have SERIOUS support under the trim work that you can't fabricate into a bus without dismembering the entire structure.

My point is, while it is certainly inferior to modern cars (which we all accept by driving these busses) you really might be better off, and most importantly SAFER using the factory bung than trying to devise your own system.

I've worked with a group called SafeKids international for a few years, and have taken courses with both GM and Ford, doing belting inspections for children seats, and even finding some faulty or EXPIRED belts in cars (did you even know that some belts to expire?)

If you want to talk a bit more, so I can at least explain a bit more clear, feel free to PM me I'll give you my number.

Im no welder, but I KNOW belts!
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Mike
1964 Beetle
2001 Eurovan Camper

[campinpoptop]

Thanks for you valuable insight! I'll shoot you a PM.
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1978 Bay Window Stock F.I.
1970 Stock F.I. Squareback

[canes5time]

I know this thread is old but I didn't want to start a new one for the same thing.

VW Heritage has the rear shoulder seatbelt mounts new. They don't look like the original ones we've all seen pictures of though. If you go to their site these are the part numbers.......211857693L & 211857693R

Here's a couple of pics from their website.....

[lintbrush]

Just installed this:

[quote="canes5time"]I know this thread is old but I didn't want to start a new one for the same thing.

VW Heritage has the rear shoulder seatbelt mounts new. They don't look like the original ones we've all seen pictures of though. If you go to their site these are the part numbers.......211857693L & 211857693R

Here's a couple of pics from their website.....

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1970 Westfalia Campmobile - SF Bay Area
https://www.instagram.com/campishome/

[vwwestyman]

I don't get the reason for the extra L bracket on there?

I just ordered a whole set of lap belts for both Buses. That started out as needing one more middle seat belt because I went from a 2 to 3-person seat. I went with 8 total belts so that they are all new and fresh and easy to adjust and wear. The old ones are stiff and difficult to adjust so seat belt compliance is an issue.

While not as safe as a shoulder belt, I think the single safest thing one can do in a crash is avoid flying around in the cabin, or out of it!

As far as booster seats: The only reason boosters are necessary is to raise a child so that the shoulder belt is low enough to not strangle, etc them in the event of a crash. If there is no shoulder belt, then boosters aren't necessary. Just belt them in with the lap belt.
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Dave Cook

President, Wild Westerner Club

1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing

[lintbrush]

[mnskmobi]

[webwalker]

[quote="lintbrush"]Just installed this:

[quote="canes5time"]I know this thread is old but I didn't want to start a new one for the same thing.

So when you installed your solution, the upright is the one provided by VW heritage?

M
_________________
"Consistent maintenance with quality products is the cheapest warranty you'll ever need."
1977 CE1 Transporter Deluxe, Subaru EJ22, Skills Cooling, Steedle HD 091 w/ GuardT .82 4th
Click to view image

[Busstom]

It sure looks like it, except the illustrations don't show that reel and pillar loop arrangement, just direct anchorage. One thing I would be concerned about is in some weird, unexpected whiplash scenario where someone's head or neck could get punctured by that L-bracket hanging out like that. Ouch.

[DougB]

I just picked up a set of those brackets and seat belts from VW Heritage...really nice solid brackets that should be pretty easy to install without too much issue with Westy furniture. In the earlier pics, though, I think there's a few things coming through that aren't quite the case.

1. Looking at my Westy (a '75), where the bracket would mount is to the rear of the rear seat back...so IMO the passenger's head would likely not come into contact with the top of the large black bracket. I also added headrests to my rear seat to prevent rear-end whiplash injury as much as possible.

2. I don't see why the guy used so many of the smaller angle brackets and hardware to attach the belt loop to the top of the bracket. I was just going to directly attach the loop to the bracket with a single bolt and spacer (allows the loop to pivot as well).

3. Sadly, the belts VW Heritage recommends for use with these brackets have really long tethers on the buckle side...I wish they were shorter. It's also a special buckle/clip design, so I can't just reuse the buckles I already have.

So the large metal bracket attaches with 2 bolts...one through the stock top mounting hole already on the vehicle...but there's a lower mount for which I don't have an existing hole to use. I guess I have to drill or weld in a way to mount this bolt? Any of you others using the VW Heritage brackets care to show your lower mounting bolt arrangement?

Thanks in advance!

- Doug
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'75 Campmobile (tin-top to SpaceRoof)
'73 Fastback
'52 BMW R67/2
'41 Zundapp KS600
'55 Puch SGS250
A very, very understanding wife

[DougB]

[webwalker]

One of the issues that I'm finding with the VW Heritage bracket is that what they show in the diagram isn't how people appear to be using it. The product diagram appears to show a non-retracting belt (which is fine; I can live without retractors. ) What they don't show is where the bracket mounts to the body. I've checked the section of metal skin on my 77 passenger Bus and there is just the one lonely weld-in nut under the window.

I've inquired of VW Heritage. What looked like a bolt in solution is looking more and more like a weld in solution.

Marshall
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"Consistent maintenance with quality products is the cheapest warranty you'll ever need."
1977 CE1 Transporter Deluxe, Subaru EJ22, Skills Cooling, Steedle HD 091 w/ GuardT .82 4th
Click to view image

[DougB]

I checked back in other messages in this and another thread linked early in this one, and one of the commenters shows a pic of his bus (not a Westy) with an existing hole where the lower mount hole is. All my bus has is a section of the stamping that is elongated, as if there were supposed to be a hole there, but there is none. I might fabricate a plate, with a welded in nut, that I then weld over that area to achieve the lower mount. Something like that an earlier poster showed for the bracket he planned to attach above his window frame.

Let me know what you hear, please!

- Doug
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'75 Campmobile (tin-top to SpaceRoof)
'73 Fastback
'52 BMW R67/2
'41 Zundapp KS600
'55 Puch SGS250
A very, very understanding wife

[Busstom]

[DougB]

Though I am interested to hear what VW Heritage says, I went ahead and fabricated an 8" long bracket that matches the ribbed stamping of the inside body, and with a welded in nut I can use as a the lower anchor point for the VW Heritage bracket. I drilled holes at about 1" intervals along the length of the bracket that I'll weld into, to attach it to the van.

I'll post some pictures when they're done etching in naval jelly.

- Doug
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'75 Campmobile (tin-top to SpaceRoof)
'73 Fastback
'52 BMW R67/2
'41 Zundapp KS600
'55 Puch SGS250
A very, very understanding wife

[DougB]

So after looking at the brackets I created, but also realizing that the stock hole that some vans have just seems to have a nut behind it, I decided to go a different route. I'm could to put a steel M8 nut-sert in that location, but will reinforce the hole by also adding a thick fender washer and adding 4 additional rivets to that. This hole only needs to prevent forward/back rotation of the VW Heritage bracket and doesn't seem to carry the bulk of the force (moreso done by the stock top mounting point right below the window).

Will let you know how that goes.

- Doug
_________________
'75 Campmobile (tin-top to SpaceRoof)
'73 Fastback
'52 BMW R67/2
'41 Zundapp KS600
'55 Puch SGS250
A very, very understanding wife

[webwalker]

[Hoody]

I have one of these which is an original one out of a Swiss Bus. David Loft in England sold it to me. He is responsible for bringing these brackets to fruition. He went to the original manufacturer and had several runs of these made. I don't know if he just passed the torch to VW Heritage or is supplying them. The original belts used are definitely retractable. Adding additional L brackets at the top where the pivot point of the belt is supposed to bolt up is a terrible idea IMO....this is reinventing the wheel and not how they were intended to be used. If you go over to "The Late Bay" there are 15-20 pages of discussion on these brackets and what belts people used as well as the work around for certain Buses that are missing the extra captive nut in the body. Hope this helps.