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So it starts now, the rebuild of our 63 rag, small updates
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Mark Evans Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 9:23 am    Post subject: Re: So it starts now, the rebuild of our 63 rag Reply with quote

JKBagley wrote:
I just dragged a '63 Ragtop home, also. I'll be watching this space with great interest!
What, no pics?
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rah253
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 2:34 am    Post subject: Re: So it starts now, the rebuild of our 63 rag Reply with quote

Mark Evans wrote:
You can get new stock valve springs in the classifieds here from Jeff Gagnon for $2 each. I don't think you'd need hi rev springs for that setup.


Good to know, thank you!
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rah253
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 2:34 am    Post subject: Re: So it starts now, the rebuild of our 63 rag Reply with quote

SBD wrote:
rah253 wrote:
SBD wrote:
I miss my '63 ragtop. Crying or Very sad


I bet! i was so happy to get that one, i can imagine.
Mine was totaled when a Mercury Marquis ran a red light back in 1992. Rolling Eyes


Damn... Crying or Very sad
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rah253
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 2:35 am    Post subject: Re: So it starts now, the rebuild of our 63 rag Reply with quote

JKBagley wrote:
I just dragged a '63 Ragtop home, also. I'll be watching this space with great interest!


Nice! glad to hear, maybe i can see some pics and progress on yours as well!
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JKBagley
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 6:55 am    Post subject: Re: So it starts now, the rebuild of our 63 rag Reply with quote

Mark Evans wrote:
JKBagley wrote:
I just dragged a '63 Ragtop home, also. I'll be watching this space with great interest!
What, no pics?


Here ya go...

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There are two sets of window glass, too.
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SBD
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:33 am    Post subject: Re: So it starts now, the rebuild of our 63 rag Reply with quote

rah253 wrote:
SBD wrote:
rah253 wrote:
SBD wrote:
I miss my '63 ragtop. Crying or Very sad


I bet! i was so happy to get that one, i can imagine.
Mine was totaled when a Mercury Marquis ran a red light back in 1992. Rolling Eyes


Damn... Crying or Very sad
By the time I was done dealing with that insurance adjuster I knew where she lived and was dreaming of setting her Fiero on fire! Evil or Very Mad
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"Just $99 down and $64 a month for 36 months buys you a brand new Volkswagen Beetle!"


mark tucker wrote:
I wouldent waste $ or thyme on building a small motor. build it big so it dosent have to work hard.remember it's only as fast as your foot alows it to be unless you build a small turd then it just stinks as it squishes up through your toes when you step on it.
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Mark Evans Premium Member
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 7:39 pm    Post subject: Re: So it starts now, the rebuild of our 63 rag Reply with quote

JKBagley wrote:
Mark Evans wrote:
JKBagley wrote:
I just dragged a '63 Ragtop home, also. I'll be watching this space with great interest!
What, no pics?


Here ya go...

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


There are two sets of window glass, too.
Looks super straight!
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robert hogaboam
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 7:50 pm    Post subject: Re: So it starts now, the rebuild of our 63 rag Reply with quote

Found 2 broken valve springs on my motor. Replaced carb. and motor runs strong now. Glad I didnít tear it all down.
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rah253
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 11:48 pm    Post subject: Re: So it starts now, the rebuild of our 63 rag Reply with quote

SBD wrote:
rah253 wrote:
SBD wrote:
rah253 wrote:
SBD wrote:
I miss my '63 ragtop. Crying or Very sad


I bet! i was so happy to get that one, i can imagine.
Mine was totaled when a Mercury Marquis ran a red light back in 1992. Rolling Eyes


Damn... Crying or Very sad
By the time I was done dealing with that insurance adjuster I knew where she lived and was dreaming of setting her Fiero on fire! Evil or Very Mad


I bet! Laughing
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rah253
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 11:50 pm    Post subject: Re: So it starts now, the rebuild of our 63 rag Reply with quote

robert hogaboam wrote:
Found 2 broken valve springs on my motor. Replaced carb. and motor runs strong now. Glad I didnít tear it all down.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


What a beauty!
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robert hogaboam
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 8:51 pm    Post subject: Re: So it starts now, the rebuild of our 63 rag Reply with quote

Looks good from distance !! 4 wheel disc brakes and short axels to fit wider Porsche wheels. 1835 with new carb. No headliner. Just a good running low car. Hauls my boards to the beach and is fun to drive. The other one is a 67 almost all stock.
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rah253
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:15 am    Post subject: Re: So it starts now, the rebuild of our 63 rag Reply with quote

robert hogaboam wrote:
Looks good from distance !! 4 wheel disc brakes and short axels to fit wider Porsche wheels. 1835 with new carb. No headliner. Just a good running low car. Hauls my boards to the beach and is fun to drive. The other one is a 67 almost all stock.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Well from a distance maybe, but still in better shape then mine! Your 67 is amazing as well!
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:30 am    Post subject: Re: So it starts now, the rebuild of our 63 rag Reply with quote

Well, a little update. After taking off a few thing and centering it on my work bench, i went and tried to turn the crank by hand to see if it was turning smoothly. It went about half way with one compression feel before completely locking up! There is definitely something playing interference here, and that is turning it at its proper rotation or reverse, it just locks at a certain point.

My son went ahead and drain the oil and it was a mix of water and oil, a bunch of water dumped first before the oil.

we decided to start taking the engine apart. To take the fan shroud off, the compressor has to come off but no can do! after heating it up with a torch and using a pry bar we finally got it off but not after breaking the bolt on the compressor side, pretty crazy how tight it was on there. I guess we will also need some new hardware...

I will update with what i find once fully taken apart.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2020 7:55 pm    Post subject: Re: So it starts now, the rebuild of our 63 rag Reply with quote

So my boys decided to come over and help out with the project which was awesome. As i mentioned before, i try to turn by hand the crank to only being able to go thru one compression and the motor locking up. Well, we decided to take the heads off and sure enough it looks bad. Previous owner must of not stored the engine properly or i'm not sure what to be honest. It looks like a head gasket blew up in a water cooled engine... Anyways a little input from you guys would be appreciated.

1) Seeing the pictures, do you see any salvation for that engine?
2) If not, salvageable parts?
3) With a deadline of June for it to run, should i just turn it in as a core and get a turn key? (financially would be the only big thing i could do outside of little stuff around the car)
4) outside of the obvious water damage, does anyone see something else that i am not catching on?

Also, is the connectors posted in the pictures for the headlights?

Thanks for your time.
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mukluk
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2020 8:46 pm    Post subject: Re: So it starts now, the rebuild of our 63 rag, update. Reply with quote

The pistons and cylinders are easily replaced (and yours need to be). Your heads may be able to be rebuilt though some more cleaning and disassembly is needed first, you may consider replacing the one head anyway due to the multiple broken cooling fins. Rocker assemblies and pushrods look like they just need a good cleaning. I'd lean toward replacing the bent pushrod tubes, they're fairly cheap anyway. On the outside the case seems to be decent and appears to have case savers installed, you'll need to split the case still and measure/inspect it further along with the internals. Overall it doesn't look too bad just from the pictures you've shown so far.

The electrical terminal does appear to be of the type used in '67+ headlight connectors. Earlier Bugs would have used a different connector with spring loaded terminal connections like this: http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=111941165C
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SBD
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2020 9:18 pm    Post subject: Re: So it starts now, the rebuild of our 63 rag, update. Reply with quote

mukluk wrote:
The pistons and cylinders are easily replaced (and yours need to be). Your heads may be able to be rebuilt though some more cleaning and disassembly is needed first, you may consider replacing the one head anyway due to the multiple broken cooling fins. Rocker assemblies and pushrods look like they just need a good cleaning. I'd lean toward replacing the bent pushrod tubes, they're fairly cheap anyway. On the outside the case seems to be decent and appears to have case savers installed, you'll need to split the case still and measure/inspect it further along with the internals. Overall it doesn't look too bad just from the pictures you've shown so far.
I'm pretty much in agreement with all of this. A couple of small things. You can bolt on a set of 83mm cylinders and pistons to bring it up to 1380cc IIRC (maybe 1385?). Probably about the same cost as a stock set. Also, if the rocker arms you have are the originals then they have a 1:1 ratio. You could replace them with a set from a later 1500/1600cc motor. Those are 1.1:1 ratio. It will give the motor a bit more grunt off the line. Not much, but I did it on my 63 and I could feel it in the Butt-dyno. Smile
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mark tucker wrote:
I wouldent waste $ or thyme on building a small motor. build it big so it dosent have to work hard.remember it's only as fast as your foot alows it to be unless you build a small turd then it just stinks as it squishes up through your toes when you step on it.
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rah253
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:43 pm    Post subject: Re: So it starts now, the rebuild of our 63 rag, update. Reply with quote

mukluk wrote:
The pistons and cylinders are easily replaced (and yours need to be). Your heads may be able to be rebuilt though some more cleaning and disassembly is needed first, you may consider replacing the one head anyway due to the multiple broken cooling fins. Rocker assemblies and pushrods look like they just need a good cleaning. I'd lean toward replacing the bent pushrod tubes, they're fairly cheap anyway. On the outside the case seems to be decent and appears to have case savers installed, you'll need to split the case still and measure/inspect it further along with the internals. Overall it doesn't look too bad just from the pictures you've shown so far.

The electrical terminal does appear to be of the type used in '67+ headlight connectors. Earlier Bugs would have used a different connector with spring loaded terminal connections like this: http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=111941165C


Thanks for the reply. I figured something seemed off with the connectors for sure. I thought maybe since the previous owner went with this 1600CC and convert it to 12V he needed that? i don't know... As far as the case is concerned, if i am to work on this engine the plan was to disassemble it all anyways, and rebuilt from ground up. I was trying to see if the value of rebuilding it all was worth it vs finding a turnkey engine or not, and how long would it take me to do so. I have a planned week of coming up at the end of the month dedicated mostly to this project. Replacing the head on that side might be the right thing to do if i decide to rebuilt it. thanks again.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:45 pm    Post subject: Re: So it starts now, the rebuild of our 63 rag, update. Reply with quote

SBD wrote:
mukluk wrote:
The pistons and cylinders are easily replaced (and yours need to be). Your heads may be able to be rebuilt though some more cleaning and disassembly is needed first, you may consider replacing the one head anyway due to the multiple broken cooling fins. Rocker assemblies and pushrods look like they just need a good cleaning. I'd lean toward replacing the bent pushrod tubes, they're fairly cheap anyway. On the outside the case seems to be decent and appears to have case savers installed, you'll need to split the case still and measure/inspect it further along with the internals. Overall it doesn't look too bad just from the pictures you've shown so far.
I'm pretty much in agreement with all of this. A couple of small things. You can bolt on a set of 83mm cylinders and pistons to bring it up to 1380cc IIRC (maybe 1385?). Probably about the same cost as a stock set. Also, if the rocker arms you have are the originals then they have a 1:1 ratio. You could replace them with a set from a later 1500/1600cc motor. Those are 1.1:1 ratio. It will give the motor a bit more grunt off the line. Not much, but I did it on my 63 and I could feel it in the Butt-dyno. Smile


Hey thanks for your reply! maybe im not catching something. My block is a 1600cc already. I would love more grunt either way, but being my first aircooled project i am trying to be careful! Laughing
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:59 pm    Post subject: Re: So it starts now, the rebuild of our 63 rag, update. Reply with quote

rah253 wrote:
Thanks for the reply. I figured something seemed off with the connectors for sure. I thought maybe since the previous owner went with this 1600CC and convert it to 12V he needed that? i don't know... As far as the case is concerned, if i am to work on this engine the plan was to disassemble it all anyways, and rebuilt from ground up. I was trying to see if the value of rebuilding it all was worth it vs finding a turnkey engine or not, and how long would it take me to do so. I have a planned week of coming up at the end of the month dedicated mostly to this project. Replacing the head on that side might be the right thing to do if i decide to rebuilt it. thanks again.

The OG style connectors will work with 6v and 12v sealed beam bulbs, the three prong layout is the same for both.

Given the time frame you've set for this project, I would stress that the sooner you can completely tear down the engine to evaluate the case the better off you'll be, especially if it needs machine work and nobody local can do it. An hour or two of work from where you currently have it should be sufficient to tear it down and snap some pics to post up for input. If you don't have measuring tools available to gauge the case and parts, a quick look at the numbers stamped into the bearing shells will likely give you an idea of what's been done during previous rebuilds.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:42 pm    Post subject: Re: So it starts now, the rebuild of our 63 rag, update. Reply with quote

mukluk wrote:
rah253 wrote:
Thanks for the reply. I figured something seemed off with the connectors for sure. I thought maybe since the previous owner went with this 1600CC and convert it to 12V he needed that? i don't know... As far as the case is concerned, if i am to work on this engine the plan was to disassemble it all anyways, and rebuilt from ground up. I was trying to see if the value of rebuilding it all was worth it vs finding a turnkey engine or not, and how long would it take me to do so. I have a planned week of coming up at the end of the month dedicated mostly to this project. Replacing the head on that side might be the right thing to do if i decide to rebuilt it. thanks again.

The OG style connectors will work with 6v and 12v sealed beam bulbs, the three prong layout is the same for both.

Given the time frame you've set for this project, I would stress that the sooner you can completely tear down the engine to evaluate the case the better off you'll be, especially if it needs machine work and nobody local can do it. An hour or two of work from where you currently have it should be sufficient to tear it down and snap some pics to post up for input. If you don't have measuring tools available to gauge the case and parts, a quick look at the numbers stamped into the bearing shells will likely give you an idea of what's been done during previous rebuilds.


Ok thanks. I am going to take the case apart, hopefully before my week off that way i can plan ahead on what to do as far as that week is concerned. I will post pics as well. I do not have a measuring tool but i will look at the bearing shells for that.
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