Chrustina- 1st real drive to Dixie Bus and numbers

[hometurbine]

Hello,
I could add this to several threads
like the CHT Nirvana
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...;start=320

or Statomaster E1
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=423765

But after 7 years, maybe it's worth my own post (related to above and full restoration)

Background
- 2L dual carburated, overhauled about 500 miles prior. Built by PO to run "hot" for performance. Not exactly sure what that means but I think it has a different crankshaft and maybe domed 914 pistons. I addded E1 stratomaster just like link above. I only did 1 CHT on #3, but now have RPM, CHT, oil temp, oil pressure.
This is the 1st trip (150 miles each way), prior 2 were 20 mile test runs, but engine didn't get fully heated.

So here is a picture of her

and the engine

and gauge (ignore readings/fault- engine off after test run)

Issue:
The bus can do 65+ without an issue. But I was monetoring the parameters and the engine oil seemed hot so I slowed down. The following are the rusults of my trip to Dixie Bus (in Columbus from Cincinnati). On the return trip it was running a bit hotter so I slowed down a bit more.

What are peole's thoughts on these numbers. Again cool day ~80F, relatively flat.

1) For sure fix seal...hopefully I can do with engine in- will look into
2) CHT seems somewhat ok, not too crazy, maybe a little high for flat drive, but higher compression/domed pistons.
3) Oil temp seems high- but acceptable? I saw the fan thermostat actuate, but is there a better way to check if it's directing air onto the cooler in a better manner? Add separate cooler with fan? Leave alone?
4) Oil pressure- barely 5psi at idle (but pressure switch/light didn't flicker or turn on so should be ok) and I read to expect about 10 psi at idle then add 10psi x1000RPM, should be closer to 30psi at 60MPH....go to 20-W-50?
5) Double check timing. My MPG suck and may address some temperature, though I have a suspicion it's running a little rich (so should be cooler). I need to get more data to see what my true MPG are.

Thanks for thoughts.
_________________
Bill
'75 Westy Bus with Subaru EJ25 engine
GE CT58-100 helicopter gas turbine
Tiernay TT10 APU gas turbine

[hometurbine]

Ok..still interested in input on those numbers,...

But regarding item 1, I'm not sure if the oil is from the aft seal or the oil pressure sender I just replaced. I see oil flung everywhere and on top of the tins on both sides, which is confounding things . Also, my timing piece wore against the fan (that could be bad)...

So at this point I could
1) put the original sender back into the case and see if there are additional leaks (easiest).
2) Start taking apart the fan and replace the aft seal. Also if the fan in vibrating then is there a good way to balance it?

_________________
Bill
'75 Westy Bus with Subaru EJ25 engine
GE CT58-100 helicopter gas turbine
Tiernay TT10 APU gas turbine

[Wildthings]

What distributor do you have and what timing spec did you use? Getting only 12-15 mpg says that something is off.

You will get better oil pressure with a 20w50 oil but will likely see higher oil temperatures as more oil bypasses the oil cooler because of the higher pressure. Maybe try a 0w40, 5w40, or 10w40 first, or even a straight 30wt. I wouldn't be too worried about the oil pressures your are seeing, assuming you don't have a problem at the pump, with a lighter weight oil you will still be getting the same volume of oil flow as a thicker oil, but just showing less pressure. Do you know what pump you are running? With a Type 1 pump the endplay for the gears is somewhat adjustable by changing the oil pump cover gasket you use, a gasket may not even be necessary, just sealant. Too much endplay will mean low oil volume and pressure.

Note that synthetic oils and straight weight dino oils can handle the heat better than dino multigrades.

[hometurbine]

1) Oil temp- so ~240-250F does appear to be high per the thread below.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...p;start=60
Timing too advanced could contribute to that. Otherwise making sure there isn't anything wrong with air across cooler.

2) oil pressure - ok...may leave that alone for now, but will consider thinner. I don't know the oil pump. I'll have to go see if I can see any markings.

3) timing/distributor- I think I have an 009 and we set it at 29-30 degrees advance.

Thanks
_________________
Bill
'75 Westy Bus with Subaru EJ25 engine
GE CT58-100 helicopter gas turbine
Tiernay TT10 APU gas turbine

[orwell84]

Your oil temps do seem high for the modest speeds you are driving. It might be partly due to breaking in a new engine. There are a lot of unknown variables about your engine build. Oil temps can read differently depending on where it is located.

Something is up with your fan if it is shredding your crank seal and timing scale which makes me wonder if your timing specs are accurate.

[hometurbine]

1) Oil temp- I'm using the 914 taco plate with cover. Since it's maybe more insulated than ones without the cover it may run a little hotter..but probably not enough to account for differences.

2) Timing- I powder-coated the fan but the only mark I can see is the radial line approximately 1.4 inch from the keyway vane (green mark next to it). Per ratwell it should be 42mm from keyed slot (~1.6 inch), but that fan looks different. I assume I'm using the right mark...but I will be double-checking the timing.

https://ratwell.com/technical/FindTimingMark.html

3) Most importantly at the moment...I'm chasing this oil leak. I'm looking into the dye solution from Aeromech, but I think a 3rd possibility is that it could be from the distributor (I removed the oil pressure sender and distributor recently).

4) Here is a video of the engine running
https://vimeo.com/user121176396/review/446658954/adc4036529
_________________
Bill
'75 Westy Bus with Subaru EJ25 engine
GE CT58-100 helicopter gas turbine
Tiernay TT10 APU gas turbine

[Wildthings]

Don't know what that mark is, but I would be worried it would not give you the correct timing. The proper mark for a bus engine is a tiny "v" on the forward rim of the pulley. You need to follow Ratwell's instruction to properly locate the mark.

[alman72]

this guy did a good job documenting a fan hub seal repair. I did it 2 weeks ago and even used the saw blade trick
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=723814&highlight=fan+hub+seal

I did have to remove the piece of tin under the fan to clear the fan for removal.
don't be alarmed when you go to remove the seal and suddenly there is an o-ring spring on your tool. it lives behind/inside the seal, and a new one is on/in the new seal. order the o-ring that goes behind the seal while you are there.
don't take the fan apart to clean it. it is balanced. the 3 bolts on the fan, then the center bolt behind is all you need to fudge with

[hometurbine]

Thanks for input.
1) OIL LEAK- I'll start by chasing leak and making sure it's the aft seal. Will get dye today.

2) AFT SEAL- If I replace seal, I did see that link you posted. But it looks like he took the fan shroud/housing off as well, but apparently don't have to do that, to your point, just remove the tin below to pull out.

3) TIMING- I'm going to look and see if that timing mark is correct on the fan, unless others have seen this before. Maybe by removing spark plug to #1 and seeing if piston is at TDC. I can also do a better inspection if I take the fan out.

4) VIDEO- this link might work better of my engine running (last one apparently didn't work).
https://youtu.be/x6obKO2hh1g

Thanks
_________________
Bill
'75 Westy Bus with Subaru EJ25 engine
GE CT58-100 helicopter gas turbine
Tiernay TT10 APU gas turbine

[alman72]

2 yes just the tin under fan. He got to clean stuff up pretty nice with the extra removal tho

[Wildthings]

[alman72]

my timing scale has a couple washers behind it to shim it out. also, if i don't hold it when you tighten it down, it can deform and make contact. I saw that there were 'pins' at the mounting spots for the scale, but i did not see how they were helping align or hold the scale in place

[hometurbine]

Update-
So I added the oil dye to look for my leak and then went for a 10 min drive and got the oil temp to ~200F.

1) Oil pressure.
As it first starts I'm getting 100-120 psi, and as it warms up then goes to ~5-10 psi at idle and 25psi+ at ~50MPH. It took at least 5 min to get the pressure to drop. So that starting oil pressure too high? I thought others said they were closer to 80psi. Will that overpressurise seals?


2) Oil Leak.
From what I can tell the oil pressue sender (using a brake line) and the distributor both look ok. So the sender relocation fix appears good.

The biggest offender appears to be the real seal. Looks like it's getting on the fan and spraying all around the back and trickling to the bottom. Some of the pictures came out better when I had my phone wear the yellow glasses (made a big difference in what I could see as well).The dipstick wasn't out, I just did it for the pictures to show that oil inside)

So looks like I'll be relplacing my rear main seal.

Thanks
_________________
Bill
'75 Westy Bus with Subaru EJ25 engine
GE CT58-100 helicopter gas turbine
Tiernay TT10 APU gas turbine

[danfromsyr]

that's not the rear main seal.
just because it's in the back of the bus.
your motor is in the vehicle 'backwards'
that's a front pulley seal


and make sure your pulley bolts aren't contacting the seal.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=371710

[mikewire]

Regarding your head temp, is your CHT probe/ring on the cyl #3 spark plug?
_________________
-Mike

@countdowngarage
@bigskyeuro

1972 VW Kombi 9 Passenger Deluxe 221(5) w/ 2.0L F.I. VWAC swap
1965 VW Beetle Deluxe Bahama Blue

[hometurbine]

1) thanks for the correction on the seal. I did order the right seals for the pulley

2) Yes, CHT is on under the #3 spark plug.
_________________
Bill
'75 Westy Bus with Subaru EJ25 engine
GE CT58-100 helicopter gas turbine
Tiernay TT10 APU gas turbine

[mikewire]

[hometurbine]

Thanks for sharing temps.

I plan on changing the fan/forward seal tomorrow.

Other thoughts: So I mentioned on start-up I get 100-120psi oil pressure that eventually stabilize to normal values (10-30psi) and my oil temp slowly rose to 240F on the long drive (the other day reached 210F in 10 min short drive). I think typical on start-up for others is 60-80 psi.

Could the oil pressure relilef valve be something I should look into as well? Could it prevent the proper amount of oil from going to the cooler? I checked the flap thermosat and that is working fine (will borescope to see if the flap is fully covering the oil cooler).
_________________
Bill
'75 Westy Bus with Subaru EJ25 engine
GE CT58-100 helicopter gas turbine
Tiernay TT10 APU gas turbine

[hometurbine]

The oil leak drama continues.
I was able to remove the fan without removing the tins. I started to loosen them but just throught I'd try, and it came out.

So I took picutre with black light (and yellow glasses on phone)


1) I'm not sure the aft seal is really leaking. I see a lot of oil on left side (oil cooler/distributor/filter?), but not a lot in the seal area. Oil definitely got flung from the fan, but not sure if that is the souce. Thoughst?

2) I think I'll respray the engine down again and re-run it without the alternator hooked up and re-look and see if I can find this allusive leak.

3) Also, the timing mark I used is correct, though I will recheck the timing as well. It also looks exactly like a differnt spare fan I have (marking location).

_________________
Bill
'75 Westy Bus with Subaru EJ25 engine
GE CT58-100 helicopter gas turbine
Tiernay TT10 APU gas turbine

[hometurbine]

Ok- leak test #2.

So after another short run ~8 min; 190 oil temp I think I finally got good results.

Looks like my oil dipstick is leaking (again) and spraying on the fan shroud

and the aft/transmission seal area (didn't open it)

But not the main/forward fan seal, nor the fan itself that (both clean). Nothing from the oil pressure sender or the cooler either.

So why would it come out of the dipstick? Looks like it's getting overpressurized? As I mentioned my oil pressure is also around 120 psi cold...seems like others are closer to 60 psi.

Thoughts?

I am a little above the fill line. Should I drain some oil and see if pressure goes down?

Thanks.
_________________
Bill
'75 Westy Bus with Subaru EJ25 engine
GE CT58-100 helicopter gas turbine
Tiernay TT10 APU gas turbine