tips for adding a fresh water tank underneath?

[honkadori]

hello hello.
i have a '77 tin top bus that i am currently turning into a camper. soon i am going to install the water system, but i have not figured out a tank solution yet. since the bus is originally a tin top, it does not have a city water connection. i will be installing solar panels too so it wont be a problem running an electrical pump.
because of size and weight distribution i think it would be best to install one underneath the bus, pretty much where the lpg tank is, but on the drivers side.

after some research on here i saw one or two posts where this was recommended:

https://www.plastic-mart.com/category/33/rv-water-tanks

https://www.westmarine.com/buy/todd--heavy-duty-po...ecordNum=2

but i am curious if anyone has more information on how where to get it / how to install the tank / adding a solution for refilling the tank / adding a level sensor / etc etc

any information would be appreciated.
thanks!
_________________
'73 bug
'77 bus

[metahacker]

I would advise the following:

Under-frame tank:

REIMO EV 1302
60 Liters (~16 gallons)
https://www.reimo.com/en/camping-shop/motorhome-ca...k-vwt2-60l

I believe straps are intended for this

Available here:
https://www.serial-kombi.com/en-GB/camping-leisure...res-n37959


or, smaller
REIMO EV 1003
45 Liters (~12 gallons)
https://www.reimo.com/en/camping-shop/motorhome-ca...2-45l-4-04

I believe threaded rod is intended for this

Both designed to mount in the rocker area on a T2 or T3, taking zero interior space


Water pump:
SEAFLO-42
Diaphragm style pump (will effortlessly suck the water up hill)
Variable load-based output (most powerful pumps will "water hammer" quite loudly when you only crack the tap, unless you add a pressurized expansion tank....not really necessary with this feature)
http://www.seaflo.com/en-us/product/detail/12080.html

https://www.amazon.com/SEAFLO-Pressure-Diaphragm-Variable-Reduced/dp/B01CQ7DD0S/

Water filter:
The "typical" 50 micron strainer should be used on the pump inlet under all circumstances.
Additionally, I really like a standard Pentek 5" housing but with the special 0.5 micron filter ... that pump will easily push through this and the water that comes out is really nice
this....
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0014C5D64/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
and this
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0045LXJ0I/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I would recommend using stainless homebrew quick-disconnect fittings with the filter. It is also nice to use alternating male/female QDs on each end of the hose so that you can remove the filter and connect the lines together bypassing the filter (if it needs to be removed for whatever reason).

Ideally, you could also have a 12V UV LED disinfection stage... like the Acuva system... then you would have some extremely high quality potable water....

You can see a system put together as described here... it is essentially the Pentek parts I listed above with an Pearlaqua "Micro" ..
https://expeditionupfitter.com/products/stealth-water-filtration-by-guzzleh2o
nice configuration, bit expensive

they are using this UV system with the filter
https://threeuv.com/product/pearlaqua-micro/
you can save a couple hundred bucks piecing it together

Hose:
Clearflo Ag-47 Antimicrobial PVC tubing
This has an ionic silver integrated that makes the tubing not get gross and keeps the water clean.
https://www.newageindustries.com/products/tubing-hose/pvc/clearflo-ag-47-antimicrobial-pvc-tubing/
I believe you can get it from McMaster-Carr or GoWesty.

I also like something like this copper/glass check valve inside the tank on a removable pickup hose that connects to a cap or fitting.
https://www.amazon.com/Multi-Purpose-Original-Safe...amp;sr=8-6
Keep in mind that copper has antibacterial, antiviral and anti-fungal properties.

City Water / Fill:
If you want to have a "city water" hook up you can use this check tee to integrate it with your onboard water tank system:
http://old.attwoodmarine.com/store/product/Check-Tees
https://www.amazon.com/attwood-6115-1-Check-Tee-Combination/dp/B000BGM2U4/
And then if you plumb your 12V pump and city water inlet to that, the faucet can run off the check tee and it will pump from city water if you're on it, and fall back to the water tank when you're not...

I would recommend looking at a marine water fill...
https://www.google.com/search?q=marine+water+fill

You could also fill using a valve from a city water hookup... you could 'only' use that if you wanted..

that said, I like having an opening and being able to fill with jerry cans, funnels, bottled water, etc. if needed...and I also like to drop tablets of Ef-Chlor drinking water purification tables (which chlorinates enough to ensure your water is safe and stable in the tank and won't get nasty, but then the filter then pulls it back out) into the opening with every tank fill.

For a city water hookup, you could look at some marine type fittings ... or this common pressure regulated RV one:
https://www.amazon.com/attwood-6115-1-Check-Tee-Combination/dp/B000BGM2U4/

I think just having a large fillable tank is enough, to be honest... I don't really get a lot of use my city water hookup.
But it sure is darn cool when you do use it.... the whole care-free-ness of infinite water.........

Tank level
The most elegantly simple tank level sensor seems to be the MOPEKA... I haven't tried it
https://www.mopeka.com/product/mopeka-water-sensor-bottom-mount/

There are also arms and floats and other stuff you can install inside the tank... I'm not a huge fan of something that requires penetrating the tank.

There's also the "GobiusPro" system that is, I believe, Ultrasonic...you mount multiple level sensors....a little more complex than the Mopeka..but it does have a driver to run a standard gauge...so you can run a VDO marine water tank gauge connected to it...which is pretty cool IMO

Misc...
For the drain (grey water) I would run it to a garden hose thread fitting (a marine wash down fitting comes to mind, or a regular home depot hose bib)...so that you can connect a hose to it if you ever need to direct or capture it in something like a collapsible grey water tank.

I would recommend looking at Scandvik faucets...

If you want to get really fancy, this 12V 6L water heater from Australia is very interesting.... if you plumb it with a thermostatic premixing safety valve you can set the the tank thermostat to max (167F) and end up having about 5 gallons of shower water....
https://ausj.com.au/product/aqueous-water-heater-6l-12v/
It would be best ran with a Victron Smart Battery Protect in front of it... so you can set the voltage thresholds that you feel comfortable cycling on the water heater.... that way, it can sap up moments of "excess power" (such as solar or alternator charge)..and toggle on/off from your phone or via hardwired switch when needed manually

with that, I think the ultimate would be to have an additional sprayer hose in the rear spare tire well.... not unlike a Eurovan Winnebago.... but with a nice garden hose thread fitting and the spray head from something like TheWaterPort.com...

I believe the fittings you will want to use with those tanks are "bulkhead fittings" .. you will need a fill, pickup, a drain valve, and a vent
the fill is usually pretty large, drain and vent is typically 3/8", the pickup can be 3/8" (or 1/2" if you want)
the check tee takes i believe expects 3/8" (pump) and 1/2" (city), if you use that...

[airschooled]

Damn, and to think I get by with a 3-gallon jug in the back seat…

Thanks again for all the helpful links.
Robbie
_________________
One-on-one tech help for your vintage Volkswagen:

www.airschooled.com

https://www.patreon.com/airschooled

[VOLTWAGEN]

[metahacker]

"Volume 60 l for VW Type 2 made of anthracite PE, can be mounted underneath the vehicle on both sides (turn around longitudinal axis)"

looks like you can have a 32 gallon Taj Mahal type camping experience after all

[richparker]

[Globespotter]

I agree with Rich, and that's my experience too. I have a portable solar panel to charge my leisure battery, but I can't seem to drain it, even using the water pump, lights, inverter, usb charging, radio etc., so I haven't even used the solar charger. That setup is definitely amazing, but more for a full size trailer.

We use an icebox rather than a fridge - with a plastic bottle filled with water and frozen prior to a trip, it lasts a week no problem, and no mess, plus extra water when it melts.

We have a portable water container - I think it's about 2.5 gals and it sits in a box I built as a console in between the front seats, with a small pump that pumps the water to the sink.

We rarely run out, and usually we can refill it where we camp.
_________________
1977 Westfalia - October 2015 - Current
1971 Super Beetle - May 2012 - Current
1979 Westfalia - 1986-1991
1971 Super Beetle - 1977-1980

1971 SB Survivor Story: https://globespotter.com/
Road Trip Thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=511800&highlight=
My 77 Westy Thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=647114&highlight=

http://vw-mplate.com/mcode.php?lang=EN&id=30990
https://vw-type2-id.xyz/mplate/72067382

[Globespotter]

[metahacker]

two 60L tanks full would weigh a total of approx 265 lbs .. not much more than one Dad Bod riding in the driver's seat .. from a load carrying perspective, the ideal place to keep water is under the vehicle in a length-wise enclosure, as the OP intends, where it has the lowest center of gravity and will minimize weight transfer sloshing in cornering ..

water is, generally, the limiting factor for staying off grid .. it's always the thing i wish i had more of .. either camping or just driving around or using my bus the way i use it every single day .. as a rolling living room or as a "WFH" office .. all usages that are made practical by having well-designed means of carry, operation and delivery for water, refrigeration and electrical ... solar allows perpetual power while stationary .. which alleviates the need for ice .. a propane tank on a bus is typically the equivalent of 12 green bottles .. so there's no shortage there even with an extremely long period off-grid .. so, again, it comes back to water.

im pretty sure the man is asking about creating a nice fresh water system on his bus .. not asking to be convinced that his ideas are foolish and not worthy of consideration, and that he should abort building himself a really nice camper with well though out electrical and water systems (things that, ironically, have been considered typical of any nice "van conversion" since the 1970s)

while extremely low-tech configurations have their charm for occasional use.... one would be hard pressed to find real advantages after spending serious time in a bus with a working fridge/freezer that runs 365 days per year, and water that flows like a house... an onboard forced air heater... and batteries that stay charged perpetually... and a cooktop that requires nothing to operate other than opening a lid, opening a valve and sparking it... i don't think there would be much interest being FORCED to deal with ice chests, jugs of water and white gas stoves on tables ... (not that any of those are a bad thing, they are fun, too, in their own way...and have their place even with a swank camper build.. )

ironically, a typical late riviera or euro market westfalia ALREADY came with all the fancy things... (yes perhaps not solar but onboard 120v battery chargers available on both variants at some point... and yes everything else - water tank, electric water pump, a real fridge/freezer, even built-in propane heat, yes even on a westie...as i said-- euro market...the euro ones even had crumpet toasters on their propane stove, etc.)..

in more simple terms, here's why you need all that shit:

Link
that's a typical day in my bus...and, also, ice cream and cold delicious beverages....always there and ready to go, like the sink/stove, not just for my special weekend.

i didnt need to go to a store and buy ice, i didnt need to "set up a camp site".. no need to lug heavy/awkward objects to complete my task.... my trunk is empty.
i just open the fridge....turn the tap on.....fire my stove... and live my life
that's how my bus worked back in 1978
and sure i have made some incremental improvements to functionality but the configuration is basically the same as it was back in the day... nowadays adding a portable solar panel for long camps is cheap and easy and makes the fridge go forever. if you use things like a CPAP they can also be the difference between being able to camp or not....

so lay off, let the man enjoy his bus and do something nice

maybe he wants to put rear discs on it too, no need to spend 4 pages of posts telling him that the stock brakes are so great (news flash: brand new coming off the lift they can post a nice 60-0 stop distance, but they really aren't that great...i have daily driven buses for a long time and the drums don't stay in adjustment on their own)

we are bay window people
bay windows are awesome
and the PEOPLE in this forum are awesome

WE CAN DO BETTER

"you don't need that." --> "wow, that's [cool/ interesting/ inspiring]!"
"i don't see the point" --> "i haven't used one before. what do you like about it?"

"what do you need all that for" is always a hoot, i get it

it, however, does not promote productive conversation or advance the collective knowledge and capability of the community antagonizing people working on stuff that, ironically, vanagon people do/talk about every single day

and yes, refrigerators, sinks with taps flowin' like marfkkn waterfalls and... yes, even inverters and stoves, do exist and they are fucking marvelous.

live your best life

no need to accept anything less than microRV level functionality
and you can even maintain originality when doing so

[Globespotter]

People post on forums, and ask questions and get opinions. No need to go off all half-cocked calling everyone haters for expressing their opinions.

Some of us like VW buses because of the simplicity.

I have a perfectly good RV trailer that has all the comforts of home if I want heat, running water, A/C, a bathroom and stove and fridge. Why I would put all that in my bus is beyond me, but hey - your bus - your choice.

Just please don't slam people for giving their honest opinions.
_________________
1977 Westfalia - October 2015 - Current
1971 Super Beetle - May 2012 - Current
1979 Westfalia - 1986-1991
1971 Super Beetle - 1977-1980

1971 SB Survivor Story: https://globespotter.com/
Road Trip Thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=511800&highlight=
My 77 Westy Thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=647114&highlight=

http://vw-mplate.com/mcode.php?lang=EN&id=30990
https://vw-type2-id.xyz/mplate/72067382

[metahacker]

That's bullshit.

First of all, Buses came with that shit stock.

More importantly, The dude started a thread called "tips for adding a fresh water tank underneath" and mentioned his solar panel...

Posting passive aggressive disrespectful stuff saying his ideas are worthless or foolish is just obnoxious and unhelpful.
It's not sharing opinions... it's a weird cultural perversion that has come to define a lot of the happenings in this particular forum.

It makes it extremely difficult to have a productive conversation.
I've observed it many times... and spoken to many people who say they won't post in this forum anymore because of it.

That type of interaction is definitely not the hallmark of places like the Vanagon forum... where posting the exact same thing, a productive conversation would have ensued. Similarly, you aren't going to have a bunch of people tell you to put a 1500 single port in instead when you ask about a serious build on the performance forum. Yet, here we are... dude just wants to have a water tank on his bus.

I put my money where my mouth is and made my contribution above.
It took significant time and effort to post and it was well-meaning;
it reflected years of real world experience and research.
If I was the OP, absent said post, I would not want to come back and ask more questions just to be peppered with insulting and irrelevant conjecture.
Similarly, I question whether my own time making such posts is wasted.
Threads that could be full of useful information just get taken over and flooded with garbage drivel that provides no substantial value.
That's not good and not healthy for our community.

That's why I felt compelled to speak up. I don't want to just sit and watch and do nothing.. or just withdraw to lurker status or just stop coming here.

I'm not calling anyone anything. I honestly think the people in this forum are generally terrific people... all the specific people who posted on this thread included... What I'm getting at, however, is that we should check ourselves and our culture...

All I'm saying is: We as a community can do a lot better.

PS yeah, I hear you. It's a pretty stark response for just 2 posts in basically shooting the shit (and I am really sorry for that, and I apologize -- none of it is about you or anyone in particular.. and I mean that)... it's not really so much about this thread, but just in general. It's all of our responsibility to be stewards for a more positive productive loving Bay window Samba world.. one thread at a time. I believe I speak for many people who have felt bullied off the forums when I say that...

[richparker]

Metahacker, we hear you loud and clear. Technology is awesome! But so is the simplicity of a bus. Space is is a commodity in a bus and one should think of that as well. Personally I travel with my wife and son. Let me tell you that once we pack the cabinets full of our clothes, there isn’t much room left in the bus for bedding and all the camping gear. Maybe you don’t carry other people or camp gear (ie:chairs, tables, BB guns, child cot, fire pit, stove, grill, ect), but once you add all that stuff another 300 lbs (water plus containers and mounting brackets) seems like a lot to me. I’m not a purist, the members in this forum can attest to that. But, I am a VW fanatic, my moves are calculated to provide the best outcome and even if that seems like it’s too much to my wife.

We are not trying to deter him from his decision. We are just Sharing our experiences to show him that there are alternatives to spending all that money and wasting all of that weight when traveling in a bus. I do most of my traveling in the southwest. I can get water almost everywhere, but I can’t get propane at midnight on a Wednesday everywhere. So, you might enjoy 300 gallons of water at your disposal, where I would be for 60 pounds of propane at mine.

Robbie’s water set up is nice and simplistic. I like it, but personally I wouldn’t want to give up that interior space. I like it and it’s well thought out, but not for me.

Different strokes for different folks.
_________________
__________
’71 Westy build
Adventure thread
’65 Deluxe Build

[Shonandb]

[richparker]

I’m down with weight. I actually set my bus up for that. But, one needs to calculate how the weight is Distributed and whet it if used for.
_________________
__________
’71 Westy build
Adventure thread
’65 Deluxe Build

[Globespotter]

Deleted
_________________
1977 Westfalia - October 2015 - Current
1971 Super Beetle - May 2012 - Current
1979 Westfalia - 1986-1991
1971 Super Beetle - 1977-1980

1971 SB Survivor Story: https://globespotter.com/
Road Trip Thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=511800&highlight=
My 77 Westy Thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=647114&highlight=

http://vw-mplate.com/mcode.php?lang=EN&id=30990
https://vw-type2-id.xyz/mplate/72067382

[honkadori]

lol!

@metahacker thanks for the super detailed reply! thats exactly what i was looking for.

and also thanks for all the other input.
_________________
'73 bug
'77 bus

[VOLTWAGEN]

I travel off-grid here in Australia a lot

For longer trips I tow a trailer it has:

180w solar panel
150 amp lithium battery
1200w invertor
fixed 82L water tank
minimum of 2 x 20L jeryy/water cans
sink/tap etc
62L fridge


I'm looking at more options not to take the trailer and just take the bus


In the bus I've already got a 15L fridge between the seats run off a 75 amp lithium battery

[Abscate]

From a cruising sailor

You don’t want to carry any more water than you can use in about one week. It will grow splooge and shinola , especially in warm sunny LA. You can treat it , of course, but the best fit water systems for drinking supply need to be emptied and cleaned easily.

Remember a 150 kg tank needs a support structure for 500-600kg to accommodate g force and slosh
_________________
🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🍊 🍊 🍊

[VOLTWAGEN]

[metahacker]

the big tank is ~ 130 lbs
not 150 kg (330 lbs)

a stock vanagon westy tank is ~ 110 lbs

they are both made of plastic

the vanagon tanks simply sits in a plywood cupboard with a single metal strap (#29 below) locationg it, to keep from fatiguing the fittings

similarly, bay westie tanks sit in wood cabinets.

600 kg in force sloshing? 1,320 lbs? nonsense.
a bus pulls a 0.7x G skidpad rating .. so it would be < 100 lbs
much less force than someone stepping on it while climbing into a pop top

the reimo under-frame tanks sit surrounded by the vehicle frame on 3 sides
reimo is german and the top camper van product company in europe
nothing about what they are offering for T2 water tanks is misguided

21 - 32 gallon tanks are typical on sprinter conversions and are mounted and used without much fuss. some just held in the spare tire spot with some thin metal bar.

here are some Vanagon guys working with under frame tanks...same ones as above.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9237808

you can see that the dude who is the NAHT high top (AdventureWagen derivative) dealer himself, a cool dude who is also a proprietor of a very detailed and complete Vanagon hot water system.... simply uses heavy duty rubber straps to hold the tank.

you might also notice that there are no people jumping onto the thread to tip the scales into naysaying, turning it to shit with multiple people piling on to tell them that they "don't need it"

and maybe my time on a B-32 sailboat racing team doesn't provide much street cred in this regard (unlike a cruiser we had no tank), i can say that the water in a tank can stay good for a long time.. if you put some Ef-Chlor in there it will last a VERY long time and the tanks and lines never seem to build up any crud..... i use it in every fill and mine are all spotless after ~3 years of daily use....IMO the issue is when people have tanks that remain mostly (but not totally) empty for periods of time sitting in disuse.... IMO ideal is full all the time with a little chlorination and a really good filter... or, alternatively, occasional use with rapid consumption followed by storage with a properly drained and dried tank/lines.... but that's pretty difficult to actually achieve TBH

i sent a sample of water in for drinking water analysis and it was rated as "excellent" - TDS was extremely low... 0-50 range ... the water tastes great, it might as well be motherfucking evian