1679 Engine Build - A First-Timer's Tale

[NewTechnicIan]

OK, well after a couple days fighting with it, I got the thing to start up!

Here's the first start on the thing. It only just barely ran at this point so before you say it sounds like crap or something, realize that I've gotten it way better tuned at this point for the reasons listed later.
You can skip to the end for the sound of it running while we drive the frame around the block!!
Anywho, here it is! You can see the smile on my face like "I really can't believe it started, but hey, what do I know?"
https://www.instagram.com/p/BFAyCj-oEm2/?taken-by=pfeiffer_pfotos

Things that I needed to do to get it from first start to fully running and nice:
I had the hoses switched on the fuel pump so I only ran until the carb bowl ran dry For those who are interested, my fuel pump has the INLET on the TOP and the OUTLET on the BOTTOM
The engine was stiff to turn over. Still hasn't fully taken care of itself but it's a lot better now than it was. I used my Corolla battery instead of the Beetle battery since it had more Cold Cranking Amps to encourage it to turn. I did check all my clearances, and my oil after the run in. No metal flakes, I just think it's a fresh engine that needs to loosen up as it runs more.
You can see more of my startup attempts and tough turnover issues here:http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=653744
Looking at that thread, you should see that I did a compression test just to make sure everything looked good while I was trouble shooting. The results are:
#1-115 psi
#2-120 psi
#3-125 psi
#4-120 psi
Put some WD40 in the cylinders to give everything a smooth ride on the cylinder walls to start. I did oil them ahead of time but I figured it wouldn't hurt to give it some more lube.
I eventually got the thing running well enough to do a long run-in and drop the oil. Aside from a ton of Zinc Additive and Cam Lobe Lube, it looked like good oil! No metal on the magnetic drain plug or in the oil so that's awesome too!


Once I got the thing started I still had trouble shooting to do. I had to hold the throttle way open and couldn't get it to Idle.
You can see the thread I started about this here:http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=655193

Big Takeaways were:
No one tells you to hook up power to the coil AND the fuel shutoff solenoid on the 34PICT-3 Carb! That meant I wasn't getting fuel from my idle circuit. No wonder the thing was running way lean!
My DVDA distributor turned out to have a broken vacuum retard which made my timing wonky. As soon as I put a timing light to it and fixed that along with the idle circuit, we were in business comfortably idling!


Some things that should be noted for details on anyone looking at this thread too:
I was chasing a vacuum leak for a while and realized my intake boot connecting the dual port manifolds was torn and while that didn't make a big difference at the time, those worm drive clamps are not recommended. That's definitely what cut in and tore the boot.
Once I disconnected the vac. retard I plugged the vac retard port on the carb to make sure I didn't have vacuum issues. How does everyone plug theirs Currently I just have tape over it.
I did put my muffler on eventually
I found my vertical section of tubing for my carb's vac. advance port so I'll plug that in soon instead of the wonky setup you can see me using right now.

Finally, a video of the first time we had the thing in gear, because I mean it was idling and we had all the other systems working except the steering wheel. quick little jig and we could drive the frame around the block . I figured I'd give my girlfriend first ride since she's been patient the last 3 years
https://www.instagram.com/p/BF6wOcWoEqH/?taken-by=pfeiffer_pfotos

And a quick one of me too. You can also tell I'm not great with stick yet This will be my first stick car
https://www.instagram.com/p/BF6uhPRoEk8/?taken-by=pfeiffer_pfotos
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My 73 Standard build - It's painted! It drives under its own power! Time to get it wired and upholstered!

My 1679 Engine build.

[NewTechnicIan]

OK so the pistons and heads were in, Now we gotta seal up all the places I could lose a washer into the internals

First I painted my engine tins:

Fuel Pump:

Oil Cooler:

Alternator Stand:

I got some aftermarket tins so we needed to take a day and trim them nice so I would stand a chance of being able to take things apart when the engine was in the car someday in the future. Here's us hemming and hawing about the tin fitment:

Intakes and mockup of the alternator:

And with the Doghouse installed:

About time to add the plugs, wires, and carb and get that bad boy running
_________________
My 73 Standard build - It's painted! It drives under its own power! Time to get it wired and upholstered!

My 1679 Engine build.

[NewTechnicIan]

mark, when you say that's a lot of Yamabond, is it worrying to have as much as I have? I know that super thick coats of sealer on the case halves can lead to lack of bearing crush in some sealers but I haven't seen any mention of that for Yamabond. Otherwise I've seen it squeeze out a little but I stayed thin on the case halves just in case.
On the pistons and the hardware I applied it a bit more liberally because I wanted a good seal and I didn't see what it could hurt since it was just a sealer. Deck height still looked good when I installed the barrels so I wasn't worried.

Always willing to learn though, thanks for checking it out!

coonhunter, like it says this is my first time so hopefully you can learn from my mistakes when people bring them up
I don't want to jinx long term success but I feel like I'm building what I was looking for here, a solid beginner engine that still requires me to look a little closer and think a little more than rebuilding stock. As long as it lasts a good long time I'll be happy.
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My 73 Standard build - It's painted! It drives under its own power! Time to get it wired and upholstered!

My 1679 Engine build.

[coonhunter]

Well, I am just about to go down this same path with my first engine build. This is one of the first posts that has me thinking that I can do it without too much trouble. I am going to build a 1776 unless I have to buy new heads, then I will probably go the same direction you went. Thanks for detailing you build. I will be watching for updates.

[mark tucker]

oiling the pushrod tube seals will help them seal.thatsa lot a yamabond....I was a certified yamaha tech in an earyler life.thats good stuff,I used it on my first vw.it needs to be thin&sparingly used.

[NewTechnicIan]

First I gotta apologize about the next few photos with the classic x-rated film "greased lens" effect, I didn't realize what was going on until after the pictures were uploaded

OK, so I got the beast outside and mounted it on my transmission to start putting pistons in and heads in:

Cleaned and re-oiled everything to help it slide a bit as I put it all together, especially my piston pins, and then oriented my rings before using a ring compressor to put my pistons in the cylinders ahead of time.

Used Yamabond to seal the cylinders to the case:

Installed the cylinders:

Installed the tin to block air on the underside of the pistons!

Installed the heads (I removed the tape eventually, it was just to help me keep my heads matched with my rocker assemblies):

Installed the pushrods and pushrod tubes, though I'm hearing now that they can leak over time so I may switch these out if they get to be an issue. They are the metal kind, not the nylon but still if they leak I'll probably replace them.

Installed the pulley tin and pulley:

We have an assembled Longblock!

_________________
My 73 Standard build - It's painted! It drives under its own power! Time to get it wired and upholstered!

My 1679 Engine build.

[NewTechnicIan]

jpaull, Thanks a bunch for the vote of confidence, I'll see how it holds up in the long run!

I have it in a garage right now but its a rented apartment so I hope I'll keep having garages until I get a place but not sure yet. I'll be doing what I can to keep moisture out for winters, especially up here in VT!

Well, with my geometry set, I did a mockup of the full engine assembly (no pictures, sorry) just to make sure I had all my parts and engine tin. I did! So I started assembly of the short block.

Put in distributor drive shaft WITH THE WASHERS!

Facing the right direction for the distributor to be set up correctly:

I'm using a DVDA distributor so that is my correct orientation for #1 TDC.

Dropped in my crank shaft oriented with #1 at TDC after putting assembly lube on all my bearings:

Inserted my lifters with some thicker oil into their galleries and put the camshaft in, rolled to match the crankshaft timing:

Put assembly lube on all my lifters and cam lobes:

I had already put on my case stud O-rings, but it should be mentioned that those were in place before I put together the short block!

I used Yamabond for mating my engine cases, it seems like it's doing a great job sealing everything up. I sealed my cam plug and put the cases together, torqued to their 28 ft-lb setting.

Then I put all my case hardware in and torqued it to spec, following the Wilson book. I put in my oil pump next, it's a Maxi 2 Oil Pump from CB Performance for some extra filtration over the original oil screen. I know people have issues with these because it's in the path of the hot air running over the 3/4 cylinders but I'm not planning on running that engine too hot anyway, I'm not an aggressive driver.

I had to pull my studs out for this pump, so I put sealer on the bolts:

On the case:

Put the Gasket on but did not seal that:

I forgot to take a picture of the thing with the oil pump installed while it was still in the basement. Then installed the flywheel, FIRST putting in my shims and checking my free play (.003"), then installing my flywheel oil seal and torquing to spec with a torque meister.

Then, after 2 years sitting in my basement, I finally brought the thing outside to sit on my frame for final assembly. I would have left it on the engine stand but wasn't sure about carrying it outside alone or fitting it through the basement door
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My 73 Standard build - It's painted! It drives under its own power! Time to get it wired and upholstered!

My 1679 Engine build.

[jpaull]

Very cool! Love the creativity. After seeing how you did the JB weld Im having more faith in the fix.

Just curious, will you be keeping this thing in a garage? Sitting outside and not being run much ends up building up a lot of moisture inside the case. Its nasty. I hope you can avoid this happening again.

Modok, good tip on the polishing of the journals.

Jeff
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[email protected] MPH 1/4 Mile & 8.1 @ 83.7MPH in 1/8 Mile with Mild Type 1 VW Mag Case 2234cc commuter engine in stock weight bug w/only .491 total lift(CB2292 Cam), 42x37 heads, 48idf's, Street tires, Belt on, Mufflers, Pump gas, video of the run here: https://youtu.be/M3SPqMOKAOg

Transmission by MCMScott:
Rhino case, Klinkenberg 4.12, Superdiff, 002 mainshaft with 091 first idler. Weddle 1.48 Third & 1.14 Fourth.

[NewTechnicIan]

I'll keep that in mind if I pinch another one John!

OK so I was mocking up the engine assembly today to make sure all my pieces looked good and noticed something off.

Turns out my sweet find of two cheap heater boxes at the swap meet last year is a little tainted because measuring the diameter of the pipes, I'm seeing I have a 1 3/8" and a 1 1/2" heater box, one for each side.
So is this an issue with backpressure on the heads that mandates I swap one out? I mean it's not like cylinders 1 and 2 see the same backpressure anyway since only one cylinder goes through the heater box, but still. I want to keep these because A) they're an expensive part to replace and B)they both have the heat exchangers and I'd like to run with some heat occasionally in the winter.

Thanks for any help!
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My 73 Standard build - It's painted! It drives under its own power! Time to get it wired and upholstered!

My 1679 Engine build.

[[email protected]]

Geometry looks good.

Also, I didn't see this in time, but we sell single bearings to bail folks out of just what you did.

http://vwparts.aircooled.net/SearchResults.asp?Search=main+bearing+single
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[NewTechnicIan]

OK I think I have it figured out although I'm a little frustrated at what appears to be good geometry. For some reason I really can't get more than .338" lift when the card says .344". I shimmed up to .12" and down to 0" and no difference. My geometry looks great though, as I'll show you now.
I ended up shimming up to .09" on the rocker bases to get the adjusters in a good position with a few threads showing and to get the swipe pattern centered on the valve stem. See what you think.

Zero Lift:

Half Lift (with geometry lines showing I think great alignment):

Full Lift:

Swipe Pattern on the Valve Stem

I think the swipe pattern shows that I'm pretty much on the money here, knowing that all my other ducks are in a row. Feedback is welcome!
_________________
My 73 Standard build - It's painted! It drives under its own power! Time to get it wired and upholstered!

My 1679 Engine build.

[clonebug]

I got pretty frustrated doing my geometry and I probably still didn't have them perfect,
After not touching them in about 3000 miles there were no problems and they stayed quiet and almost right on adjustment.
I found a couple just a tiny bit loose but otherwise they were nice.
Just make sure you have the flat of the ball on the valve when you put the rockers back on.
It's easy to get them in the wrong spot. I pulled one rocker off to replace a pushrod guide.

I think I turned the adjusters out 1.5 turns and then used the shims and stock pushrods.

You could try that position to see if yours work out.
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[NewTechnicIan]

Hi Clonebug,
Nice work. I like your methodology from your thread, especially checking total lift as a good measure of how spot on your geometry is. It wasn't explicitly mentioned in a lot of threads I've seen but it makes a lot of sense that you'd want to have the exact valve lift that the cam says it has!

When I checked the total lift this morning I had .336" instead of .344" so I guess I still have some fiddling to do, although maybe that's something to do with the dial indicator. I'll have to check my setup thoroughly.

I ground my rockers down to make room for the ball bearing adjusters a while ago, and I know the contact patch is nice and wide between the adjusters and the valve stems. They won't present some of the marginal-contact problems I've heard about from some users.

Thanks for the help!
_________________
My 73 Standard build - It's painted! It drives under its own power! Time to get it wired and upholstered!

My 1679 Engine build.

[clonebug]

I have a set of DRD heads and they are at 52 cc's on the chambers.

I ended up getting CB's Swivel feet and I ground my rockers down to make clearance.

Here is my build page with the specs I used.

http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=127936&start=1335

I used .131 inch of shims and the stock pushrods to make everything work.

Keep going to the next page for the actual final results .
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[NewTechnicIan]

Howdy! Finally got to work again. Little steps forward as we start to defrost up here.

I Think I have my valve geometry set! Take a look-see at the following pictures. I did my level best to get my dial indicator in the correct orientation and position of the valve stem for accurate measurement.

I tried assembling without shims and used my home-made adjustable pushrod, and the results were good but the adjusters were screwed ALL the way in. So I screwed out the adjuster 1 full turn just in case and that changed things enough that I needed to add a .03" shim to the rocker pedestals. That seems like it's all I need, the contact patch is nicely centered and the adjuster is in line with the valve at half lift, at least to my eyes. Full lift looks a little more extreme than 0 lift in the picture but I took the pictures from a slightly different angle and I think that's where it looks a little off.

See what you think!

Zero Lift:

Half Lift:

Full Lift:

_________________
My 73 Standard build - It's painted! It drives under its own power! Time to get it wired and upholstered!

My 1679 Engine build.

[calvinater]

Howdy, Any updates?
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"Albatross"!

[calvinater]

Howdy, Any updates?
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"Albatross"!

[NewTechnicIan]

Thanks for the tips Brian,
So a little more research has turned up that, indeed, shorter than stock pushrods are an option in building engines with these adjusters. I found a thread talking about the geometry problems here:
Right Here

So I guess I'll chop up a pushrod and make an adjustable to start fiddling with this. Updates to come
_________________
My 73 Standard build - It's painted! It drives under its own power! Time to get it wired and upholstered!

My 1679 Engine build.

[Brian_e]

From where I am sitting, it looks like removing the shims and maybe removing some more of the underside of the rocker would get you just about perfect. I usually cut about .100" off my rockers.

You want your no lift and full lift to be very similar angles, while keeping your half lift in line with the valve stem. Right now you don't have much angle at 0 lift, but a bunch at full lift.

Here is what I do.
Use an angle finder and set the valve cover rail at 9.5° (angle of the valve center line relative to the head). This will make your valve stem 0 or 90 depending on how your angle finder is held. Now you can rig up a way to measure the angle at zero and full lift. You will also know when your half lift is zero as well. I have used a 2" long thin steel strip with a 8mm hole at one end. Put the strip under your adjuster nut and tighten it down. Set your angle finder on the strip.

It will take a bunch of fiddling around, but I think the angle finder makes it much easier to visualize whats changing.

Once you get your geometry all figured out, don't forget to check the oil hole in the threaded adjuster shaft. It might need to be slotted some to realign with the oil hole in the rocker arm.

Brian

[NewTechnicIan]

Well I wanted to make sure of my rocker geometry before I started assembly so I could be pretty confident in all this stuff and build the long block quickly and start it up within a couple days of bolting it together.

I screwed something up of course

While I was mocking up the crank and cam and followers to start looking at the rocker geometry I pinched two bearings. Ugh, I guess that's what I get for not thinking about engine stuff in a while and running through steps

So I guess I'll need a new bearing set and lesson learned. For now the engine actually rotates fine when I put the crank onto the correct dowel holes so I used it to start checking valve geometry.

Since I'm using swivel ball valve adjusters I needed to grind down my rockers to accept them and still have clearance.

Before:

After:

A couple pictures of the oiling holes too:

I used the shims that came in the pack with the adjusters, they were .030" each, 8 total. That gives me .060" shims under each pedestal.

So I bolted on the rocker assembly to see what that got me. It turned out I either needed to take more off the rockers or shim the assembly higher! The assembly bolted down and already had started pushing valves even at TDC. I'm using stock push rods and I don't think anyone uses shorter than stock push rods (Right?) so I don't think that's where I want to adjust it.

Check out the pics below, I'm looking for advice on whether to shim higher or grind the rockers more.


Excuse the crappy pics, the lighting could be better in the basement.

Zero Lift:

Half Lift:

And with the Geometry lines:

Full Lift:

From this, I'm thinking shims will be the answer? I know at zero lift I need the adjuster side to be higher so that I can adjust it at all. The shims would fix that and would (I think) Fix the acute angle I'm seeing at half lift on the pushrod side?

There's a thousand of these threads but I haven't been able to find any pictures of people's ground down rockers to compare my own! Anyone's help would be so appreciated here!

Thanks!
_________________
My 73 Standard build - It's painted! It drives under its own power! Time to get it wired and upholstered!

My 1679 Engine build.