Mazda 3 engine swap?

[TinCanFab]

I've been reading dyno charts and looking at random info on the newer rx8 engines. I knew they consumed oil and fuel-some of the other things I've been reading are pretty surprising. Still, with your max hp coming in around 8500 RPM and max torque at 5500??? At below 3000 RPM the torque is weak like a 1600 ACVW. I don't see it as an improvement over the subie at all. No aircooled trans can handle this fast revving engine in a daily driver. You would need the matching trans as well. After all that hackage, I'd be kicking myself for not doing a small block v8 instead. If rotary swaps are so good, they be popular still. In the 80's, it seemed more popular than the Subaru. But the 80's Suburu engine was not sporty or a real upgrade. Now, the Subaru is a powerhouse without the quirkyness of the rotary.

There are a lot of things that can fail in a VW trans. Besides all the power it has to handle, it's obvious when you take one apart it's not meant to spin at 8500. Most of the common racing mods for a tranny are for better shifts and power handling. Even then, drag race cars are not doing their 8,000 RPM every day. Just look at the play in the input shaft. The ancient designed hubs,gears, bearings, type of gear oil, etc. The more you look, the more you notice it's a terrible match for highway miles with VW trans. It's a low geared miniature heavy duty truck gearbox. I don't think any of the common mods will save trans death while holding 5-6000 RPM long drives. I know it seems like a cool swap from a size perspective, but I think it's a bad idea.
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They're never really ever finished 58 rag build...
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=658092

[gprudenciop]

[the2ndcashboy]

Dude, have you just ignored everything I posted? A non-turbo Forester (the car YOU picked remember) puts out 165hp AT THE WHEELS and runs 16.8 with an auto trans. A 5.0 Fox body puts out 210hp ALSO AT THE WHEELS and runs 16 flat with an auto. OF COURSE your 5.0 will beat a non-turbo Subaru, it's got FIFTY MORE HORSEPOWER. All cars sold since the early 70's have been rated in WHEEL HORSEPOWER. That includes SHITTY FORDS.

There, I put the important parts in caps so maybe you won't be able to gloss over it again. I really don't know why I'm bothering the though. I think I'm done here.
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[theKbStockpiler]

I was thinking of buying a subaru as a daily driver and researching a swap for a type 1 after finding out that my type IV case was not usable. After I read some guides on subaru engine rebuilding I changed my mind. Boxer engines biggest gain are that they are light and short from the flywheel to the crank pulley. An aluminum split engine case does not hold up well to abuse and in the subaru's case the best option is with a new engine replacement. Along with the adapter plate ,what to do for a transaxle ,the huge amount of wiring and boogering up the car with a radiator it is not practical in my own opinion. If the case held shape it would be a different story.

I was/am looking into a rx8 swap but every one wants top dollar for a engine that has to be a replaced warranty version because the originals were garbage and they themselves are swapped out because of negative aspects. This is looking to be non practical as well. Some my say stupid.
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My beetle is not competing with your beetle. I have the yellow beetle in my town. There is a red one, a green one ......
Use all safety devices including a mask.

[dsrtfox]

An all wheel drive Impreza weighs about 3,400 lbs. If you put the same engine in a 2,000 pound Type 1 it will run circles around your Fox Mustang. All of that aside you guys are 2 different kinds of enthusiasts, there is no right answer. But I'll tell you this, the Subaru conversion is not a fad. More are being built all the time. Also remember Subaru advertises there engines with full smog controls. If you pull all that shit off of one and get a pro tune you'll have an easy 200 hp. It takes one hell of a ACVW to match that and it certainly won't go 150K with nothing more than oil changes.

One mans opinion

[theKbStockpiler]

http://myquartermile.com/qtrmile.php?make=Subaru


It looks like here from the figures that any subaru under a 14 second quarter mile time is a turbo and all of those over are a non turbo. So I can head out in my pony car and beat a non turbo subaru if Ichose and risk the legal fees. Or, I can assume that when I see a non turbo subaru being beaten on by a kid who borrowed it from the parents and not getting out of it's own way that they are not that fast.
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My beetle is not competing with your beetle. I have the yellow beetle in my town. There is a red one, a green one ......
Use all safety devices including a mask.

[theKbStockpiler]

[the2ndcashboy]

[skills@eurocarsplus]

read post #9

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2308074

I have an identical(ish) build in my bus.

187 at all 4 wheels. n/a.

so, when you guys decide to pull your heads out of the sand, do some homework and realize you can do a "modest" (by Subaru guys definition) 200+ hp n/a build for a fraction of what it would cost to do aircooled....and it will survive forever, why would you f*ck with this old technology and piss poor parts?

every time I stick my head in this forum, there is always some catastrophe, be it a noob or a old timer. sorry, not fun to me anymore

SOHC's fit all vw platforms just fine. I think you need to trim bumper brackets? apron? in a bug (not a bug guy, so I don't know)
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[theKbStockpiler]

I think the 4 cam subaru and the turbo versions have decent power but are too intrusive for a swap in a type 1. For the real world Hp increase of a dual cam 2.0- 2.2 subaru of 25 Hp compared to a stroked aircooled vw, I would put a type V in the car. Even 25 Hp is substantial but with the amount of work involved is too much in my opinion just to say you have a subaru in it. A bus is a different situation.

[the2ndcashboy]

[the2ndcashboy]

[theKbStockpiler]

Autoparts suppliers historically do not stock a lot of parts for subaru's. I assumed this was because the market was bad for them because they did not break down.

To reiterate my opinion on high peak Hp cars that can't do crap on the street; if the dyno numbers are true they don't include 10-30 oil ,accessories, (an alternator) etcetera or the engine is barely ever in its narrow peak Hp range. The only ricers I see not backing down to a race with a modified pony car are ones that are running over 15lb of boost.
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My beetle is not competing with your beetle. I have the yellow beetle in my town. There is a red one, a green one ......
Use all safety devices including a mask.

[skills@eurocarsplus]

[PumaVW79]

[Dale M.]

Another advantage of the Subie is its a new modern engine, lets say 150HP(?) at wheels stock, and if you are on the road and have a engine problem you stand a better chance of getting parts for engine at local FLAPS the you highly modified VWAC engine....

Friend of mine built beautiful Porsche RSK kit car and originally put a 125hp at the wheel ACVW motor and the idea of getting parts while car was on road was a worry to him... He upgraded to Subie (not sure what version) but with the EFI and added horsepower it put more life into car as to speed (cruise) and acceleration, and made car a lot more fun to drive and engine is in stock form....

Dale
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All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ...

[skills@eurocarsplus]

from wiki

The EJ engine was introduced in the 1989 Subaru Legacy to replace the EA engines. It was designed from scratch with five main crankshaft bearings and four valves per cylinder and can be either SOHC or DOHC and one timing belt. The fifth digit is the only way to tell without seeing the engine.





Subaru EJ20H twin turboEJ15: 1483.4 cc SOHC, 1990–2003 JDM Subaru Impreza
EJ16: 90 hp at 5,600 rpm used in the 1993–2006 Subaru Impreza
EJ18: 1820 cc SOHC 110 hp at 5,600 rpm used in the 1993–1996 Subaru Impreza and Euro and JDM Subaru Legacy
EJ20: 1994.3 cc, available in Europe and Japan naturally aspirated at 115–190 hp and with a Turbo 220–280 hp used on Most Models, (2002–2005 WRX in the United States)
EJ22: 2212 cc, 135–280 hp used in the 1989–2001 Subaru Impreza and Subaru Legacy
EJ25: 2457 cc, 165–320 hp found in Most Models 1995–Present
EJ30: Special limited engine. Four were built by Subaru, but only 3 remain in working condition. There is no readily available technical or power information on these engines.

Generally the EJ-series can be divided into two versions: the Phase I engines (1989–1998) and the Phase II engines (1999–2010). The Phase II engines featured new cylinder heads and crankshafts with the thrust bearing located at crank bearing #5 instead of #3. The designation also changed from Phase I to Phase II. All Phase I engines have an alphanumerical suffix behind the standard EJXX designation, all Phase II engines have a numerical suffix behind the EJXX designation.
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[theKbStockpiler]

You changed the comparison to turbos and the 4 cam subaru's don't filt well in a type 1.What's does a stock impreza get in the quarter without a charger, 16's?
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My beetle is not competing with your beetle. I have the yellow beetle in my town. There is a red one, a green one ......
Use all safety devices including a mask.

[the2ndcashboy]

[theKbStockpiler]

So a Forester can beat a Fox body 5.0 in a quarter mile then?
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My beetle is not competing with your beetle. I have the yellow beetle in my town. There is a red one, a green one ......
Use all safety devices including a mask.