Hard start relay for Auto w/cruise

[IdahoDoug]

Nmind. Cleaned up the connections and she starts fine. Argh.
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1993 Toyota LandCruiser, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader

[IdahoDoug]

Does anyone know where I can get a look at the Hard Start Relay Kit wiring diagram? Mine's from the original Jay Brown (thanks, Jay!!) and I'm having an unrelated starter issue. Want to know what I'm looking at under there before going out. I see Uniworks now has the rights, etc for this product but they don't provide a diagram (completely understandable, of course). Anyone out there willing to PM it to me to keep it out of the public domain, etc? Thank you in advance.

Doug
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1993 Toyota LandCruiser, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader

[jlrftype7]

[Cody2289]

Did anyone ever figure this out? Whether simply removing the cruise relay would allow a hard start relay? My cruise doesn’t work anyway

[danfromsyr]

Tim I'd have to dig up the wiring diagram again.
but in the AT with CC, The Cruise relay is more of an ignition interrupt so you can't set the cruise in Neutral (iirc).

but the Cruise relay back feeds the starter trigger wire (energized when cranking) in a traditional hot start relay install. and causes the relay to keep the starter on when you release the key. making really ugly contact with the ring gear on the now running engine.

again this is a quick as I recall..

I'm sure the CC relay can be "defeated" to allow install of a hot start relay.
as mentioned , I don't know if it requires removing the relay, cutting the wire to it or joining the wire to it..
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[Timwhy]

Thanks Dan. So the 30 amp relay doesn't replace the cruise relay in the fuse box? Can the cruise relay be taken out to add the hard start relay?
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'15 Audi A3 Quattro
'09 VW Tiguan (dead)
'87 VW Westy
'91 Tin Top
'90 Cabby
What the Westy wants the Westy GETS


http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_search.php?search_author=Timwhy&show_results=summary

http://www.youtube.com/user/TIMWHY2?feature=mhee

[danfromsyr]

Tim it's just a standard 30amp relay.

but it's the cruise control relay that interfers with the automatic hard start relay installation. if you connect it like normal it'll trigger and lock the starter in the On position..
I'm not sure exactly how you need to bypass/disable the rely.. ie. if the wire gets snipped or connected.. have to do a little more research..

I'd be very interested in your old CC bits (control unit/wire harness/stalk swap/vac pump) even planning a VW trip to maine this next summer..
lets talk..
Dan

[Timwhy]

I would like to add this relay too my TinTop, but have a question on what type and amperage relay are we to use?

My TinTop came with cruise control but it doesn't work and would like to eliminate it at the same time when
adding the relay.
_________________
'15 Audi A3 Quattro
'09 VW Tiguan (dead)
'87 VW Westy
'91 Tin Top
'90 Cabby
What the Westy wants the Westy GETS


http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_search.php?search_author=Timwhy&show_results=summary

http://www.youtube.com/user/TIMWHY2?feature=mhee

[cmayna]

Mark,
I'm in touch with Jay Brown and have sent him your suggestion to review. I truly appreciate everyone's comments.

Craig
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'90 Westy / automatic.
If I'm not working on the camper or my '50 Chebbie truck, I'm either fishing with the wife or smoking Salmon.


Craig

[fxr]

I repeat - there's no reason why you can't use a relay to bypass the ignition switch contacts - just to protect them, nothing else.

You may have misunderstood my point.
_________________
Jim Crowther
1984 1.9l EJ22 Westy Wolfsburg Edition
Vespa GTS 300

[crazyvwvanman]

The relay kit uses a much shorter wiring path in addition to bypassing the dash switch so you get benefit from the higher voltage at the solenoid too.

The issue isn't auto tranny, it is the way VW implemented cruise on auto tranny vans. It is the auto version of the cruise that creates the conflict. No cruise, no conflict with the cruise.

The conflict has nothing to do with the high current side of the relay or the relay contacts. The conflict is on the relay coil side.

Mark

[fxr]

[crazyvwvanman]

That depends on how you wire it in, not whether the relay is in the front or the back.

Mark

[Terry Kay]

No difference in the switch regardless what trans, with or without cruise.
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T.K.

[fxr]

Unless the auto has a different ignition switch then replacing the 'start position' contacts with relay contacts cannot cause any conflict.
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Jim Crowther
1984 1.9l EJ22 Westy Wolfsburg Edition
Vespa GTS 300

[crazyvwvanman]

The conflict between factory cruise/auto and an added start relay has nothing to do with whether the start relay is added up front or in the back. The conflict will be there in either case.

Mark

[fxr]

Caveat - I don't have the Bentley in front of me:

One of the main points of an extra start relay is to hugely reduce the current that flows through the ignition switch. I'd have thought it possible to add a relay up front just to accomplish this, even if it doesn't provide the added benefit of bypassing most of the original solenoid wiring.
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Jim Crowther
1984 1.9l EJ22 Westy Wolfsburg Edition
Vespa GTS 300

[Zeitgeist 13]

Got it. I became confused during the discussion of the fusebox, and wasn't sure whether the "hot start" relays were installed up front ahead of the lock-out circuit, so I just assumed a bypass might work back near the starter. I've never owned/worked on a Vanagon auto. Very enlightening
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Casey--

'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik?

[crazyvwvanman]

Yes, many of us have put our own relays into many VWs over the years. Jay's kits are basically the same thing only built to a professional level. I have ton's of new relays and new wire but I still buy Jay's kits because he builds them better than I can myself.

The issue isn't that the added start relay won't start the car. The issue is that the VW auto tranny cruise system has a relay that puts a weak voltage into the starting circuit whenever the key is on and the shift lever is in park or neutral. This voltage is too weak to directly activate the big starter solenoid. But it is strong enough to activate an added start relay and that activates the starter when you don't want the starter! Even if the engine is already running. Even if you just want to sit there with the key on and engine not running.

Mark

[Ahwahnee]