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Island Bumpkin
Samba Member
Joined: April 22, 2013
Posts: 332
Location: Whidbey Island, Washington
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 Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:58 pm Post subject: Anybody run a second Alternator? |
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I was at work the other day, and I had a thought. Has anybody ever run a second alternator?
I was thinking about the alternator upgrades that are out there for the stock vw style, and what it would take to do a (expensive) upgrade to be able to occasionally run the off road lights as well as a sound system and not risk killing the car.
At work, and I imagine other places as well, we sell the GM style 1 wire alternator that is pretty much a universal alt. They come in 65 and 80 amp flavors, at a fraction of the cost of a conversion. I already have a second pulley on the crank that ran an ac system. Seems to me it would be easy to fab up a mount, and have one of the GM alternators. Either have it feed to the primary bug system, or have it run a second battery as it's own system power the sound system.
Thoughts?
-Jameson
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Vehicles:
1971 Baja Bug, 1600dp, summer/winter/summer project
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1988 F250 SC/LB 7.3 IDI/ZF5/Dana 50 front, Sterling 10.25 rear. 4" lift -Daily-
1976 F250 Reg cab/LB Stock 300/NP435/NP205 -Long Term Project-
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thefladge
Samba Member
Joined: July 25, 2005
Posts: 1294
Location: Anaheim, CA
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| Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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I've seen GM style alternators installed on off road VWs. Usually the VW generator / alternator is not wired up and is there only for the fan.
Seems like a good idea to me and would make removal and replacement much easier.
_________________
1957 Vintage Baja Bug.
2110cc engine, 40 IDF Webers on Gene Berg manifolds, Engle 110 cam, Bugpack 40×35.5 Street Pro Heads, W8CC plugs, 12.5 pound Flywheel, Kennedy 1700 pound pressure plate. |
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Bad_chopper
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Joined: August 15, 2012
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Location: Portland, or
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Q-Dog
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Joined: April 05, 2010
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Location: Sunset, Louisiana
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PhillipM
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Joined: January 07, 2010
Posts: 633
Location: UK
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| Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 7:18 am Post subject: |
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| We just stuck a 90 amp Nissan alternator on ours, can't remember the exact model but with a little filing it went straight on. |
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Bashr52
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Joined: July 16, 2006
Posts: 5669
Location: On an island in VA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 7:37 am Post subject: |
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| Why not just upgrade to a 90 amp alternator? They are available. |
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andk5591
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005
Posts: 16800
Location: State College, PA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:26 am Post subject: |
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| Bashr52 wrote: |
| Why not just upgrade to a 90 amp alternator? They are available. |
X2 - simple bolt on. Why complicate things?
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone 1914. Ex wifes car.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Ex-wifes car.
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them... |
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RailGuy
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Joined: July 21, 2011
Posts: 195
Location: Elmer NJ
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| Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:43 am Post subject: |
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| by the time you buy a second battery, the second alt. belt, wiring, fab up a mount, and then put your time into it. Itll be cheaper to just upgrade. |
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Island Bumpkin
Samba Member
Joined: April 22, 2013
Posts: 332
Location: Whidbey Island, Washington
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| Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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Just a random thought I had
For comparison, 90 amp alt is $160. I've already got a spare battery, and the alt and wiring would only run me about $60-70
-Jameson
_________________
Vehicles:
1971 Baja Bug, 1600dp, summer/winter/summer project
Follow my progress!
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=556996
1988 F250 SC/LB 7.3 IDI/ZF5/Dana 50 front, Sterling 10.25 rear. 4" lift -Daily-
1976 F250 Reg cab/LB Stock 300/NP435/NP205 -Long Term Project-
| Axitech wrote: |
| My rail is basically my "I can't take civilized life anymore this month, so I'm going camping" vehicle |
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thefladge
Samba Member
Joined: July 25, 2005
Posts: 1294
Location: Anaheim, CA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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_________________
1957 Vintage Baja Bug.
2110cc engine, 40 IDF Webers on Gene Berg manifolds, Engle 110 cam, Bugpack 40×35.5 Street Pro Heads, W8CC plugs, 12.5 pound Flywheel, Kennedy 1700 pound pressure plate. |
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andk5591
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005
Posts: 16800
Location: State College, PA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Island Bumpkin wrote: |
Just a random thought I had
For comparison, 90 amp alt is $160. I've already got a spare battery, and the alt and wiring would only run me about $60-70
-Jameson |
So then just do that if you don't mind dicking around with the fabrication. Its been done before. I have seen additional pics posted on here at one time or another.
I did the dual battery on the current project, but wanted it to also look "factory", so I opted for the VW 90A alternator.
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone 1914. Ex wifes car.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Ex-wifes car.
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them... |
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Vanapplebomb
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Joined: November 03, 2010
Posts: 5572
Location: Holland, MI
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| Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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I am not a fan of adding additional alternators to these engines. Adding a second one reduces the wrap angle on the fan pulley. On a stock set up, the belt starts really slipping on the pulley somewhere between 4500-6000 rpm. That is fine for a stock engine since that 4500 is redline. Reducing the wrap angle on it by adding a third pulley will knock that number down proportionally.
It would be best to keep the stock position and replace the old generator/alternator a larger capacity unit.
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1800 Type 4 Berrien 295
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021 |
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Mr. Unpopular
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Joined: September 20, 2005
Posts: 3715
Location: Tampa Florida
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| Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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That's assuming the fabricator doesn't take belt wrap into account. I've got a few ideas for adding a second alternator that would provide as much or more belt wrap as the stock setup.
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Island Bumpkin
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Joined: April 22, 2013
Posts: 332
Location: Whidbey Island, Washington
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| Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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Belt wrap will stay the same on the stock alt. I've got a second pulley on the crank.
_________________
Vehicles:
1971 Baja Bug, 1600dp, summer/winter/summer project
Follow my progress!
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=556996
1988 F250 SC/LB 7.3 IDI/ZF5/Dana 50 front, Sterling 10.25 rear. 4" lift -Daily-
1976 F250 Reg cab/LB Stock 300/NP435/NP205 -Long Term Project-
| Axitech wrote: |
| My rail is basically my "I can't take civilized life anymore this month, so I'm going camping" vehicle |
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Vanapplebomb
Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2010
Posts: 5572
Location: Holland, MI
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| Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| That's assuming the fabricator doesn't take belt wrap into account. I've got a few ideas for adding a second alternator that would provide as much or more belt wrap as the stock setup. |
If you did that, it would be best to switch over to a flat belt, such as a serpentine. A short v-belt like on a VW can't be bent back on itself far before the belt life is dramatically reduced, and there is no way to get a larger wrap angle without using a backside pulley...not to mention a backside pulley on a v-belt can't transfer nearly as much power as an inside pulley for a given belt tension.
By the time you rig up a serpentine belt (or similar), your extra alternator, and potentially an idler pulley or two, you may as well just have gotten a larger stock style alternator.
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1800 Type 4 Berrien 295
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021
Last edited by Vanapplebomb on Mon Dec 02, 2013 7:12 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Island Bumpkin
Samba Member
Joined: April 22, 2013
Posts: 332
Location: Whidbey Island, Washington
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| Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Vanapplebomb wrote: |
| If you did that, it would be best to switch over to a flat belt, such as a serpentine. A short v-belt like on a VW can't be bent back on itself far before the belt life is dramatically reduced, and there is no way to get a larger wrap angle without using a backside pulley...not to mention a backside pulley on a v-belt can't transfer nearly as much power as an inside pulley for a given belt tension. |
You've lost me. There wouldn't be any back belts or funky angles. There would be two separate belts. Both would be roughly the same angle and wrap as the stock alt belt.
If it goes to the pass side of the carb above the alt, than angles will be almost identical. Granted, I might get some underdrive issues, being that the pulley is small.
-Jameson
_________________
Vehicles:
1971 Baja Bug, 1600dp, summer/winter/summer project
Follow my progress!
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=556996
1988 F250 SC/LB 7.3 IDI/ZF5/Dana 50 front, Sterling 10.25 rear. 4" lift -Daily-
1976 F250 Reg cab/LB Stock 300/NP435/NP205 -Long Term Project-
| Axitech wrote: |
| My rail is basically my "I can't take civilized life anymore this month, so I'm going camping" vehicle |
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Vanapplebomb
Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2010
Posts: 5572
Location: Holland, MI
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| Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry, I didn't see your post between mine and the one I was responding too. I added the quote for ya to avoid confusion 
As for your double pulley idea, sounds like a good plan to me. Much better than piggybacking off of the other pulley like others have done.
Is that a Mexican bug pulley for air conditioning, or a custom job?
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1800 Type 4 Berrien 295
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021 |
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Glenn 
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Island Bumpkin
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Joined: April 22, 2013
Posts: 332
Location: Whidbey Island, Washington
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| Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Vanapplebomb wrote: |
Sorry, I didn't see your post between mine and the one I was responding too. I added the quote for ya to avoid confusion
As for your double pulley idea, sounds like a good plan to me. Much better than piggybacking off of the other pulley like others have done.
Is that a Mexican bug pulley for air conditioning, or a custom job? |
Ohhh ok that makes more sense.
It's a mexi bug engine. Dunno when it got put in the car. I wasn't sure it was at first, but then I saw the "Hencho en Mexico" on the engine
_________________
Vehicles:
1971 Baja Bug, 1600dp, summer/winter/summer project
Follow my progress!
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=556996
1988 F250 SC/LB 7.3 IDI/ZF5/Dana 50 front, Sterling 10.25 rear. 4" lift -Daily-
1976 F250 Reg cab/LB Stock 300/NP435/NP205 -Long Term Project-
| Axitech wrote: |
| My rail is basically my "I can't take civilized life anymore this month, so I'm going camping" vehicle |
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Vanapplebomb
Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2010
Posts: 5572
Location: Holland, MI
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