cb2280 negatives

[gooser]

a cb 2280 seems to be a highly recommended camshaft around here so i'm sure many have used it. compared to a factory camshaft what positives or negatives should i expect? better or worse gas mileage? more power at what rpm range? more or less reliable than a factory camshaft? thanks. 1800 engine.

[Casting Timmy]

The great thing about the cheater cam is that is can work with all the stock stuff...carbs, exhaust.

Positive would be more power with stock carb, exhaust......the negative for me is that I want more, but I also am going to run dual carbs and a 1.5" merged exhaust.

If you want a little more than stock and don't want to spend a lot on performance carbs, exhaust heads, it's a great choice. If you already have dual carbs, aftermarket exhaust and heads you can do a different cam to utilize the power out of the other components.

Post what all you have and what you want to do with it.

Here's my example:
I have a 69 beetle that I've lightened a little and will keep lightening with a stock 4.125 rp transaxle...I'm building a street fun motor with the following:

L3 heads cut for 9.5 compression
dual IDF's with 32 vents
1.5 exhaust
thickwall 1835

I've worked on a lot of fast cars, but never had my own...I look forward to playing with a motor with some compression to it as that's what I want. I want to see what running a high compression big cam motor is like before I build the next motor with a stroker crank and big heads.

[gooser]

thanks timmy. like i said 1800 engine, stock heads, 34-3 carburetor with stock exhaust and heater boxes. looking for improved bottom end torque so i won't have to gear down much while cruising up hills. (less noise) lightning fast acceleration and top end speed don't mean much to me. have you ever owned a car with a 2280 in it?


also: from your answer i think i'm beginning to understand what the term "cheater cam" actually means and it does sound like what i'm looking for. i've been threatening to rebuild my engine for years and today i actually shipped my case off for some machine work. i would still like an answer about the gas mileage and reliability parts of my question.

one more question: how smooth is the idle with a 2280?

[75smith]

reliability is a big thing, but CB's stuff is pretty good, try to use their lifters, even the lightweights, or go by their recommendation

as with doing everything yourself you take some risk, its 50/50 using the best parts if the cam lives(following a proper break-in) VW probably lost several engines before leaving the factory because some part or another failed

fuel mileage should remain the same
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"Cheater" means it looks stock, but isn't. That cam is designed to work with the stock carb.

If you aren't going to use the stock carb, then the Cheater cam is the wrong choice IMO. Go with a slightly bigger one, because you won't have the bad side effects of doing so with the stock carb!
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[Quokka42]

Hmmm, "cheater" in the cam trade usually means a cam that has been ground with faster ramps, giving a larger area under the curve for a given advertised duration and lift - thus "cheating" the rules of a racing class. With roller cams you may hear of "dwell over nose" meaning the amount of time the valve remains at maximum lift, but with flat-tappet it needs to have a gentle curve at the top.

Are you suggesting the 2280 is not a "cheater" cam in this sense, John?
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[[email protected]]

You may be right. All I know is that cam is one of the biggest you can go with the stock carb, and pass emissions. In California technically any deviation from stock is a no-no. But that cam can be used and the emissions techs aren't the wiser, since there is no engine tear down. And the engine will still pass the sniffer test.

I'm pretty sure that's where the term comes from in this case.

[Quokka42]

Always a problem with parts houses - you're left guessing on most things. I miss the days of real companies that made their own products. I'm well aware of the difficulty of getting details out of the Chinese, even if you can get past the language barrier, but accurate specs would be nice on most things.
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[slalombuggy]

[Quokka42]

They still put sod all detail on their site - getting meaningful data out of them is like pulling teeth, hence we come here trying to draw on others' experience in amongst people who just make stuff up.

I'd have thought John would have the info as he resells them, but obviously not.
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[Slow 1200]

[vwracerdave]

Go back 25 years before the Internet when CB developed the "Cheater" cam and there were many magazine articles about it and all the emissions testing they did with the gov't. They did get the cam approved with the state for smog and emissions legal. In this case the cam is "Cheating" the legal system and the smog laws.
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[rockurob]

for comparison......
FYI: VW stock cam specs:
IO: 7.5
IC: 37
EO: 44.5
EC: 4
overlap 11.5°
lift with 1.1: .322 Intake .310 exhaust
intakes on 104.7 centers
exhaust on 110.25 centers
duration 224/228...think this is at .050

the CB 2280 cam is very close to a stock cam
profile.....
with a built in higher lift in the get go
with a very tight overlap at 9°
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[Q-Dog]

If you have more questions I'm sure CB would gladly answer them. In the meantime, this info is Copied directly from the CB Website:

Adds up to ten horsepower without effecting idle speed emissions! We developed this cam during our Fuel Injection R&D Program. It performed so well in it's original application that we tried it with carburetors. The low speed torque produced by the Cheater Cam supplies a VW engine with greatly improved drive-ability, passing power, and top speed. The power increase is so noticeable that the Cheater Cam works great with a compliment of smog equipment. The addition of Dual Carburetors stretches you engines horsepower band to over 5000 RPM. A set of Hi-Rev Springs, mild port work, and extractor exhaust will give your engine the extra kick you're looking for in a daily driver.

Adv. Duration 274°
Dur. @ .050" 222°
Lift @ cam .359"
Lift w/1.1:1 Rocker Arms .394"
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'69 Dune Buggy
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[Dan Ruddock]

Ok, I will talk about the down side over the stock cam. To get the added lift out of a cam with close to the same duration of a stocker you must do two things, open and close the valve faster and keep opening it as long as possible which creates a sharp pointy cam nose. These two things will wear out parts faster which is why VW did not do this. The engine will need stronger springs (more wear) and the sharp nose reduces cam/lifter contact area at full lift, again more wear. Is it manageable? Yes with harder cam and lifters than stock it will still wear out faster than the stock setup but at an reasonable rate. Would I use this cam in a engine that a customer wants the performance it provides? No, I would achieve close to the same thing with ratio rockers and a stock cam.

I used a webcam version of a cheater cam (which I no longer see on there cam list) many years ago and the valves were a little noisy compared to a stock cam. Have any of you found that to be the case with the CB cam?

Dan

[modok]

yes, bit noisier than a "stock cam", but average compared to most performance cams.
I built on that was 1776, 36 DRLa carbs with 28 vents. It would pull smooth from idle speed. The guy loved it, loved how it would cruise around town in fourth, but you should not really DO that..........so that is a downside.

[Alstrup]

Yes the 2280 is slightly noisier than a stock cam when HD sgl springs are used (which is a nessesity on dual port stocker plus etc engine.) But not as noisy as say a W100. Paired up with stock PR´s and 0,05/0,10 mm valve lash the difference is minor. - and yes the valve lash is safe.
If you use stock heads you will get "stock like" performance, plus the approx 10 hp
The ramps on the 2280 are actually not that aggressive. It raises and seats the valve quite gently. The accelleration occurs after/before approx 31 degrees seat lift, where the valve is already in motion, so it is not so stressfull.
If you improove breathing etc, even on a larger (up to 1900 ish displacement) you will get better performance, and especially torque without having to rev it. I have seen 90 Nm/l. several times.
If you want an engine that will bounce the limiter at 6000 plus every other moment this is not the cam for you. Add 1,25 Rockers and the power will increase more than the average 4% above 4000 rpm, and especially on larger engines.
Larger engines will also pay for having the cam installed at 106-107 ILC

T

[andy198712]

I wonder if this would make a good turbo cam...?
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[gooser]

i'm listening guys.

[Alstrup]