Author |
Message |
rmr2122 Samba Member
Joined: August 18, 2013 Posts: 96 Location: San Francisco, CA
|
Posted: Sun May 15, 2016 10:20 am Post subject: Broken pencil in cylinder while finding TDC |
|
|
1971 Super, stock engine. I was doing a simple distributor swap and did the pencil test to confirm TDC. The pencil broke and the eraser end is now lost in my #1 cylinder. What's the fastest and easiest way to get it out? I can't feel it down the hole so tweezers are not going to work.
Thanks in advance. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Agent47 Samba Member

Joined: April 22, 2016 Posts: 271 Location: Scott AFB
|
Posted: Sun May 15, 2016 10:46 am Post subject: Re: Broken pencil in cylinder while finding TDC |
|
|
You could try a shop vac with the smallest attachment you have, it may be able to pull the piece out.
Personally, I would take the head off and ensure all the foreign materiel is removed; it would be work the extra work not to damage my engine. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
rmr2122 Samba Member
Joined: August 18, 2013 Posts: 96 Location: San Francisco, CA
|
Posted: Sun May 15, 2016 10:55 am Post subject: Re: Broken pencil in cylinder while finding TDC |
|
|
Thanks! Do I need to remove the engine to take the head apart? |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Cusser Samba Member

Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 32873 Location: Hot Arizona
|
Posted: Sun May 15, 2016 10:56 am Post subject: Re: Broken pencil in cylinder while finding TDC |
|
|
rmr2122 wrote: |
1971 Super, stock engine. I was doing a simple distributor swap and did the pencil test to confirm TDC. The pencil broke and the eraser end is now lost in my #1 cylinder. |
1. I can't believe that you did this - you had received poor information, maybe from the Compleat Idiot book. A plastic drinking straw is a tons better choice !!!
2. Others have done this too, and posted their sob stories and fixes here.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=626188&highlight=pencil+broke
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=415893&highlight=pencil+broke
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=225356&highlight=pencil+broke
rmr2122 wrote: |
1971 Super, stock engine. I was doing a simple distributor swap and did the pencil test to confirm TDC. The pencil broke and the eraser end is now lost in my #1 cylinder. What's the fastest and easiest way to get it out? I can't feel it down the hole so tweezers are not going to work.
Thanks in advance. |
_________________ 1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
rmr2122 Samba Member
Joined: August 18, 2013 Posts: 96 Location: San Francisco, CA
|
Posted: Sun May 15, 2016 11:04 am Post subject: Re: Broken pencil in cylinder while finding TDC |
|
|
Thanks! Do I need to remove the engine to take the head apart? |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
whobba Samba Member

Joined: March 19, 2002 Posts: 881
|
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Q-Dog Samba Member

Joined: April 05, 2010 Posts: 8833 Location: Sunset, Louisiana
|
Posted: Sun May 15, 2016 11:08 am Post subject: Re: Broken pencil in cylinder while finding TDC |
|
|
rmr2122 wrote: |
Thanks! Do I need to remove the engine to take the head apart? |
The job would be much faster if you remove the engine. _________________ Brian
'69 Dune Buggy
'69 Beetle Convertible
'70 Beetle |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
rmr2122 Samba Member
Joined: August 18, 2013 Posts: 96 Location: San Francisco, CA
|
Posted: Sun May 15, 2016 12:15 pm Post subject: Re: Broken pencil in cylinder while finding TDC |
|
|
Thanks for the troubleshooting. I live in Brooklyn and my car is parked on the street, so dropping the engine is a bigger deal than if it were in a driveway or garage.
I'm going to try the shopvac and grabber methods. If they don't work, I'm going to fire it up and let the damn thing burn. I'm sure there will be some disagreement with this method, but I seriously double the damage capabilities of a thin piece of metal wrapped around the end of the pencil on this tank of an engine. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Dougy Dee Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2004 Posts: 1750 Location: Niagara Region, CANADA
|
Posted: Sun May 15, 2016 12:17 pm Post subject: Re: Broken pencil in cylinder while finding TDC |
|
|
Wont a magnet work on the eraser end of the pencil? |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
slalombuggy Samba Member

Joined: July 17, 2010 Posts: 9314 Location: Canada
|
Posted: Sun May 15, 2016 12:30 pm Post subject: Re: Broken pencil in cylinder while finding TDC |
|
|
rmr2122 wrote: |
Thanks for the troubleshooting. I live in Brooklyn and my car is parked on the street, so dropping the engine is a bigger deal than if it were in a driveway or garage.
I'm going to try the shopvac and grabber methods. If they don't work, I'm going to fire it up and let the damn thing burn. I'm sure there will be some disagreement with this method, but I seriously double the damage capabilities of a thin piece of metal wrapped around the end of the pencil on this tank of an engine. |
Have you ever seen what a wafer thin lock washer will do to a head and piston? Don't think that it will pop right out, you will do damage to your motor no ifs ands or buts. If it doesn't come out with a vacuum pull the head or fk up your engine, your choice.
brad |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Tim Donahoe Samba Member

Joined: December 08, 2012 Posts: 11779 Location: Redding, CA
|
Posted: Sun May 15, 2016 12:32 pm Post subject: Re: Broken pencil in cylinder while finding TDC |
|
|
Use the shop vac, or any vacuum cleaner. Tape up a clear hose to the vacuum suction--a hose that will fit into the spark plug hole. Stick the hose in and turn on the vacuum. Watch the clear hose for the eraser head.
However, if no eraser shows up in the hose, the eraser may simply be stuck to the hose end, so gently pull out the hose with the vacuum still operating.
Tim _________________ Let's do the Time Warp again!
Richard O'Brien |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
johnnypan Samba Member

Joined: October 24, 2007 Posts: 7431 Location: sackamenna
|
Posted: Sun May 15, 2016 12:44 pm Post subject: Re: Broken pencil in cylinder while finding TDC |
|
|
Tim Donahoe wrote: |
Use the shop vac, or any vacuum cleaner. Tape up a clear hose to the vacuum suction--a hose that will fit into the spark plug hole. Stick the hose in and turn on the vacuum. Watch the clear hose for the eraser head.
However, if no eraser shows up in the hose, the eraser may simply be stuck to the hose end, so gently pull out the hose with the vacuum still operating.
Tim |
Uhh,if the rings are good you wont draw the eraser out....correcting stupidity should cause pain,it keeps the process from repeating..yard out the engine,take off the head. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Glenn  Mr. 010

Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 79269 Location: Sneaking up behind you
|
Posted: Sun May 15, 2016 1:06 pm Post subject: Re: Broken pencil in cylinder while finding TDC |
|
|
Cusser wrote: |
rmr2122 wrote: |
1971 Super, stock engine. I was doing a simple distributor swap and did the pencil test to confirm TDC. The pencil broke and the eraser end is now lost in my #1 cylinder. |
1. I can't believe that you did this - you had received poor information, maybe from the Compleat Idiot book. A plastic drinking straw is a tons better choice !!!
|
[/quote]
Take the pulley bolt off and turn the engine so the key way is at 9:00. Now it is at TDC on either #1 or #3. Reinstall the nut, remove the valve covers and rock the engine back and forth observing the rockers on #1 and #3. If the #3 rockers are moving, it's at TDC on #1. If the #1 rockers are moving, it's at TDC on #3.
No need to stick anything inside the cylinder. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Volks Wagen Samba Member

Joined: February 13, 2013 Posts: 2931 Location: Germany
|
Posted: Sun May 15, 2016 2:12 pm Post subject: Re: Broken pencil in cylinder while finding TDC |
|
|
Dougy Dee wrote: |
Wont a magnet work on the eraser end of the pencil? |
Yes, a rubber magnet. _________________ 1973 1303 with AB-motor - sporadic
reconstruction as time permits, 1986 ex-Bundeswehr Doka - on the road again.
I'm definitely, probably, the worlds greatest lover.
Aithníonn ciaróg ciaróg eile. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Glenn  Mr. 010

Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 79269 Location: Sneaking up behind you
|
Posted: Sun May 15, 2016 2:22 pm Post subject: Re: Broken pencil in cylinder while finding TDC |
|
|
Volks Wagen wrote: |
Dougy Dee wrote: |
Wont a magnet work on the eraser end of the pencil? |
Yes, a rubber magnet. |
Maybe a wood magnet would be better.
The metal around the eraser is most likely aluminum. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Dougy Dee Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2004 Posts: 1750 Location: Niagara Region, CANADA
|
Posted: Sun May 15, 2016 2:46 pm Post subject: Re: Broken pencil in cylinder while finding TDC |
|
|
ALUMINUM! Then that wont work. I should have checked more pencils than the old one I found in the back shop... It was steel/magnetic. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Danpa Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2007 Posts: 1276 Location: Valparaiso, in
|
Posted: Sun May 15, 2016 3:00 pm Post subject: Re: Broken pencil in cylinder while finding TDC |
|
|
Could he/she remove the bolts in the rear of the frame fork and lower the engine/trans enough to get the head off? Might not have to completely remove the engine that way.
Just a thought,
Dan |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Old n' slow Samba Member

Joined: October 29, 2012 Posts: 619 Location: Western Maryland
|
Posted: Sun May 15, 2016 3:11 pm Post subject: Re: Broken pencil in cylinder while finding TDC |
|
|
rmr2122 wrote: |
Thanks for the troubleshooting. I live in Brooklyn and my car is parked on the street, so dropping the engine is a bigger deal than if it were in a driveway or garage.
I'm going to try the shopvac and grabber methods. If they don't work, I'm going to fire it up and let the damn thing burn. I'm sure there will be some disagreement with this method, but I seriously double the damage capabilities of a thin piece of metal wrapped around the end of the pencil on this tank of an engine. |
Take it from me, I've worked on enough old junk on Queens N.Y. streets. If you can't possibly pull the engine and you have 115 volt out there on the curb, do the shop vac with the tiny hose, etc. but don't fire it up, just turn it over by hand and hopefully crunch it up enough separating the aluminum band from most of the wood. Then do the shop vac again until you at least get the metal piece. Any wood left shouldn't be too bad if it's in small enough pieces. It's not the right way but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. _________________ Currently own : 1969 Beetle w/ 1600cc, Single Port, Solex 30 PICT 2, Dist. 113 905 205 T, stock exhaust.
All my daily drivers gone but not forgotten;
1964(sunroof)1967 & (2)1968 Beetles , 1968 Squareback , 1963 (23 window )Deluxe Sunroof Bus , 1969 Westphalia camper, 1974 Dasher , 1985 Vanagon , (2) 1981 Rabbit Diesels & a 1991 Jetta Diesel . |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Volks Wagen Samba Member

Joined: February 13, 2013 Posts: 2931 Location: Germany
|
Posted: Sun May 15, 2016 3:26 pm Post subject: Re: Broken pencil in cylinder while finding TDC |
|
|
I wonder would pouring oil in the plug hole fast cause it to float up and out? _________________ 1973 1303 with AB-motor - sporadic
reconstruction as time permits, 1986 ex-Bundeswehr Doka - on the road again.
I'm definitely, probably, the worlds greatest lover.
Aithníonn ciaróg ciaróg eile. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Glenn  Mr. 010

Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 79269 Location: Sneaking up behind you
|
Posted: Sun May 15, 2016 3:48 pm Post subject: Re: Broken pencil in cylinder while finding TDC |
|
|
Dougy Dee wrote: |
ALUMINUM! Then that wont work. I should have checked more pencils than the old one I found in the back shop... It was steel/magnetic. |
So is the cast iron cylinder.
I'd get a borescope and one of those 3 finger grabbing things on a flexible shaft. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
|