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Hydraulic Lifter Adjustment Puzzles Me
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RichBenn
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Joined: November 16, 2005
Posts: 678
Location: Lake Tahoe, NV
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 10:07 am    Post subject: Hydraulic Lifter Adjustment Puzzles Me Reply with quote

Hi, all.

Reading here and elsewhere (including Bently, Boston Bob, others), I see several lifter adjustment procedures:
1. Set at 1.5 turns in(OK, some say less, some more).
2. Same as #1, but any valve not full of oil (squishy), set to .006 clearance so it has a chance to fill, then set it in like #1 once it's filled and hard. (Bently)
3. Start 'em all out at zero(varies) lash, check compression, move them in, re-check, etc.

I know there are variations and more details on these, so please bear with me.

I was doing basically #2, which filled most of my squishy lifters, then ran a compression check. All great, except for #3, which was 90psi. This cylinder had hard (so filled) lifters, which I had adjusted to 1.5 turns in. Squirted oil into the cylinder, still 90 psi. Adjusted to zero lash. Checked compression - it's now 140 psi like the others!

So it would seem #3 would have merit. But I lack understanding. If approximately 1.5 turns (1.5mm?) is half way in, wouldn't that be the best place to set it? If not, what is actually going on with the lifter and/or valves? Do I adjust in a 1/2 or 1/4 turn at a time until compression drops, then move it back till it comes back up?

BTW, this is a 1.9L water cooled.

Thanks in advance,
Rich
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EXITSTRATEGY
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Joined: March 27, 2006
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Location: rolling thunder river company, nantahalla gorge. NC
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rich, i want to check my valves, what is this procedure and where did you find it? addresses or titles and page numbers please.

crash.
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Randy in Maine
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Set the valve last to where the compression matches up withthe others and then check it in a week or 100 miles.

Been here?

http://www.ratwell.com/technical/HydraulicLifters.html
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RichBenn
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Randy in Maine wrote:
Set the valve last to where the compression matches up withthe others and then check it in a week or 100 miles.

Been here?

http://www.ratwell.com/technical/HydraulicLifters.html


Yes, I have been there. It's a good site for most everything. However, what I'm really wondering is "why"? Ignition timing, fuel mixture, is all fine and I have no vacuum leaks(although I think-I should re-check vaccum at running speed).

If the lifters are designed to be pre-loaded half way, then why would another setting work better? Are the lifters that seem rock hard not actually fully pumped up? I think that's what Boston Bob may be saying here, although he's talking post assembly, not after being run for awhile:

http://www.bostonengine.com/articles/hydraulicll.htm

Or could I be getting wear on the valve seats or something (I wouldn't think so, as these are new Spanish heads).

Also, for EXIT STRATEGY, the Bently service manual has the fundamentals(you need to have one of these to work on a vanagon), and you can also find info by searching the Samba for lifter AND adjustment. Some info also at type2 under Technical Articles "Library", then scroll down to the lifters, pushrods, and seals links.

http://www.type2.com/

This is really for type2's, but later ones have hydraulic lifters and the procedures are pretty much the same.

And, of course, check out the link Randy gave above.

Rich
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you
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rich- i have the same issues you have and ive talked to many about it trying to figure it out(ive been told numerous times some engines just have to be run zeroed out)...it seems to me that the valve train is rather quirky(as well as the heads)...i think you just have to feel out what works best with the wear your engine has...currently i have mine set at zero lash(finger tight) and the compressions not too bad...and i feel a bit safer that im not going to break a retaining clip(yup its happened twice when gapped at .006)...once they get any sort of preload however compressions drop on 1-2 cylinders and the idle sounds horrible, as well as the cold start gets rougher...right now im contemplating varying the adjustment just to try and balance the engine but im not sure if thats the best idea...as far as your engines concerned though your seats may be going...on my old heads it would only have good compression when gapped and otherwise it would be around 60 psi....turned out to be a dropped seat...90 isnt that bad though as bently i think says that the min is somewheres around 75....anyways good luck, happy tinkering, and watch your knuckles on the tin screws
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RichBenn
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you wrote:
rich- i have the same issues you have and ive talked to many about it trying to figure it out(ive been told numerous times some engines just have to be run zeroed out)...it seems to me that the valve train is rather quirky(as well as the heads)...i think you just have to feel out what works best with the wear your engine has...currently i have mine set at zero lash(finger tight) and the compressions not too bad...and i feel a bit safer that im not going to break a retaining clip(yup its happened twice when gapped at .006)...once they get any sort of preload however compressions drop on 1-2 cylinders and the idle sounds horrible, as well as the cold start gets rougher...right now im contemplating varying the adjustment just to try and balance the engine but im not sure if thats the best idea...as far as your engines concerned though your seats may be going...on my old heads it would only have good compression when gapped and otherwise it would be around 60 psi....turned out to be a dropped seat...90 isnt that bad though as bently i think says that the min is somewheres around 75....anyways good luck, happy tinkering, and watch your knuckles on the tin screws


Thanks for responding!

Well, the head is new, (50 miles), and it's water cooled, so I don't think I have dropped seats. (better heat management unless water is lost) I actually get 140 now. Like you, I haven't tried to see how far I can go in before compression drops, cause I started doing front end work, and it took me two days to get one of the ball joints out! (argghh) Isn't working on these wonderful!

Aircooled minimum compression is 73psi. But for the 1.9, which I have, minimum is 116psi, with normal 145-189. I'm at high altitude, so adjusting for that, I'm probably in there on all cylinders. Just kinda nervous as I keep finding things the P.O. did wrong when he put the new heads on, and I want to have everything right before doing any long trips I'm just too old for that kind of adventure Laughing !

Regards,
Rich
P.S. -- I like your avatar -- reminds me of a similar picture in Greece I took about 20 years ago -- after sampling some Ouzo.
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djkeev
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 7:45 am    Post subject: Re: Hydraulic Lifter Adjustment Puzzles Me Reply with quote

This is an interesting thread to link to about noisy lifters, his efforts at repair and what his problem was and how he solved it.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=693355

Dave
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MayorMcCheese
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:49 am    Post subject: Re: Hydraulic Lifter Adjustment Puzzles Me Reply with quote

I was reading this thread https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=260099 and found this interesting and probably relevant.

"When you adjust preload, initially the adjuster screw will actually open the valve. That is a temporary condition. How much you open the valve with the adjuster will have no affect at all on the actual valve lift once the engine is running and the lifter has time to self-adjust. None. See wolfej1's linked post above if you doubt that. If you still doubt that, I'm afraid you're beyond our help. "
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