One side too hot

[volksterii]

Background; I have a 1914cc, engle 100, 40x35.5 heads, 8:1 cr, 009 with pertronix and kadrons. My oil stays about 180 to 200 depending on driving habits. However, I made the mistake of installing two cht gauges. One on #2 and one on #3. I figured they were the two offset from the fan. Anyway, the #3 reads good temps about 275 to about 325 around town and on the highway and about 340 to 350 on long hills. However the #2 reads 325 to 350 around town and 350 to 380 on the highway with 400 and 425 on hills. I know that the VDO gauges are just for trends but this makes me nervous and there is too much difference between the two sides. I have tuning the motor until I am high from breathing the exhaust. I am about to buy a a/f meter to see what is going on. I believe that I do not have any leaks in my tin and am running all the tin and have a sealed engine compartment. Is it the a/f mixture or bad cooling. I would say that I am on the rich side of things because the plugs are dark but who knows. Any feedback will be appreciated.
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71 Westy Hardtop, 1915
2005 Touareg V8 air susp.

[mharney]

Is it a safe guess that you are running an aftermarket 36HP style fan shroud?

Right when you cut the engine, what happens to the temps on the gauges? Either one jump immediately up or down? Does the needle change readings when you rev the engine up a little and hold it there while sitting still?

[volksterii]

Well I have been reading these forums pretty intensively and reading a lot of your posts, and of course you nailed it. I have a fan shroud without the doghouse and no stock oil cooler. I have a remote cooler for the oil. I really do not want to put all that back though and I am not running heater boxes. Do you believe this is the problem?
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71 Westy Hardtop, 1915
2005 Touareg V8 air susp.

[mharney]

If it is a STOCK shroud (as in OEM GERMAN), early type, and you have no oil cooler in there, much of the air from the fan that is supposed to go over the heads is escaping down between the cylinders on that side. You MUST have an oil cooler in there with that shroud type.

On that setup, the cooler acts like a baffle for the airflow, reducing the amount that actually goes through the cooler cavity and forcing the air to take the other route to the heads. Taking the cooler out makes an easy lace for the majority of the air to just escape, away from where it is needed most.

[volksterii]

So no matter what, all shrouds must have a cooler in them? There are no shrouds designed without an oil cooler?
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71 Westy Hardtop, 1915
2005 Touareg V8 air susp.

[mharney]

There are some, but any of the original pieces that were non-doghouse are made for use with a cooler inside. You can probably fab something up that will block the airflow that would go through the cooler cavity and fix most of it that way. If you pull the shroud and look at it, or can source another shroud like it, you will see what I mean about the vanes in there and how a lot of air can just pour out from an area away from the heads.

The internal coolers were quite efficient though, and I always recommend them in addition to an external if someone needs it. The doghouse is the better choice for a heavy engine though.. note that in 1971, VW Bays came with a T1 dual port engine with the ONE year of doghouse cooling for Bay buses, and all the Bays before were single ports with inline coolers, and all later were T4 engines.

The triangle (offset and centermount) shrouds are made for use with no oil cooler, IIRC.

[volksterii]

mharney, thanks for your help. I am going try and fab something up and try it. I have the shroud off now so I will be able to do fab something soon. If that doesn't work, I guess I will have to put the doghouse back on but block and drill the sorkels.
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71 Westy Hardtop, 1915
2005 Touareg V8 air susp.

[Randy in Maine]

Just out of curiosity, why would you run a 009 distributor in that application?

That is pretty much a stock cam with kads and a bus.

[volksterii]

Unfortunetly I have been running the 009 for a long time. Until I joined samba did I learn that the 009 was not good. Or is there another reason that the 009 will not work with the combo?
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71 Westy Hardtop, 1915
2005 Touareg V8 air susp.

[Jake Raby]

With those temps failure of some sort is imminent!

If he shroud is a centermount arrangement its the second worst choice that can be made, thats backed up by my data..

Go stock
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Jake Raby
Raby Engine Development
www.rabyenginedevelopment.com
"I've never given anyone Hell, I just told them the truth and they thought it was Hell"

[Matthew]

[mharney]

I'm with you guys, but wanted to answer his question.

[jamestwo]

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hEY, lOOK, i'M WRONG HALF THE TIME, AND THE OTHER HALF i'M NOT SURE WHAT THE HECK i'M TALKING ABOUT. MY POST ARE FOR MY OWN ENTERTAINMENT VALUE ONLY.

[Stuntmanus]

I had faced the same problem earlier, and that was caused by the different deck height (hence the different C/R) on an engine.

When the engine in-line boring is not a true line machine the deck height should be compensated by shims on one side. The higher compression side runs hotter.

It is just a guess.
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Stuntmanus


1974 VW 1303 RS 2110
1972 VW 1302

"Look man, I am not Mr. Lebowski, I am the Dude...!"

[volksterii]

As everyone guessed, mods to shrouds don't work. I got the two sides equaled in regards to temp only because the other side got hotter after some mods to the shroud.

So I will install a stock dog house that I have. However, I do not have the flaps nor the t stat. Where would be the best place to get some? I see that they vary in price depending where you get them. Anywhere from about $40 to $70 each side.

Thanks again!
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71 Westy Hardtop, 1915
2005 Touareg V8 air susp.

[[email protected]]

If you do not want to run an in shroud cooler, run a doghouse shroud and block off the air routing to the offset cooler. This is the PROPER way to omit the stock cooler.

As mentioned, if you run a non doghouse shroud without the cooler you are in trouble, since the airflow REQUIRES the cooler be there for proper airflow to both 1/2 and 3/4 sides of the engine.

Eric Allred was the first guy I knew of that ran the doghouse shroud with no cooler in it, since he used an external cooler on his engine. He also experimented with no oil cooler AT ALL as he was figuring out what worked and why, and found one wasn't even needed for a majority of driving. Ask him for details on this. Jake has more extensive research on this matter, which is how he came up with his DTM.

John
Aircooled.Net Inc.
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[volksterii]

But the DTM has an oil cooler in it, correct?
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71 Westy Hardtop, 1915
2005 Touareg V8 air susp.

[gerg]

Has a type IV cooler external to the main shroud like a doghouse shroud.
_________________
Gerg

. . . I got 99 problems and my bus ain't one . . .

'65 Sunroof Beetle
'65 Vert
'60 Singlecab

[volksterii]

Looks like some of this thread is missing. Anyway, I changed all my cooling to stock dog house cooling with all of the tin in place. This did not change the readings on the #3 and #2 head temp readings. They are still about 40 to 50 degrees different with #3 reading lower. I then switched the carbs from one side the to the other with no change to head temps. Then I added gauges all cylinders and found that #1 and #3 read the same and #2 and #4 read the same. This I believe says that the carbs are not creating the heat. So I actually have a front to back problem and that is probably worse situation than I first thought.

So my question is can the 009 distributor create heat in the 2 and 4 cylinders? I have a pertronix ignitor in the 009. Also what is the max differential head temp difference from cylinder to cylinder?

Any help is appreciated.
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71 Westy Hardtop, 1915
2005 Touareg V8 air susp.

[[email protected]]

does your doghouse shroud have the flaps and thermostat mechanism in place and operational? These are VERY IMPORTANT, do not omit them.

The 009 is not the cause of temperature discrepancies on 2/4.

You also should NOT check temps at idle, because with kadrons the engine idles on 2 cylinders, which is the case for all dual 1bbl carbs. So OF COURSE you'll see a temp difference at idle from the cylinders that are running and those that are not.

John
Aircooled.Net Inc.
_________________
It's just advice, do whatever you want with it!

Please do NOT send me Private Messages through the Samba PM System (I will not see them). Send me an e-mail to john at aircooled dot net

"Like" our Facebook page at
http://www.facebook.com/vwpartsaircoolednet
and get a 5% off code for use on one order for VW Parts ON OUR PARTS STORE WEBSITE, vwparts.aircooled.net