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Starter Won't work after a long drives
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Joey
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 4:50 am    Post subject: Starter Won't work after a long drives Reply with quote

I did a couple of long highway trips this past weekend and a few times after I stopped the bus wouldn't start as in the starter would not turn over. I had to crawl under the bus with a screwdriver to short the terminals on the starter to start it. A few times I was stopped for 15 minutes and a few times I was stopped for an hour or two. I read the Bus Against The Wall thread and was wondering if the grease in the solenoid may be the problem. You would think once the solenoid got hot the grease would thin out and not cause it to stick.
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vwwestyman
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 5:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like you are on the right track. Got the hot start problem!

Either replace the starter, clean up the old grease, or install a quality relay, in a dry place.
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jpstewart19
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had the same issue a while back. I installed a hot start relay, which didn't fix it. Also swaped the starter with a known good one that resolved nothing. In the end it was the ignition switch in the column. It was cracked and causing intermittent issues which seems worse after driving a while...good luck.
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Joey
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I forgot to mention... the problem still persisted after I cleaned and tightened all the wires going to the starter and cleaned and tightened the engine/trans to frame ground strap... it actually goes from the frame to the bottom starter bolt.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd pull the plug off the bottom of the ignition switch and jump between the red and red/black wires next time it happens, it won't run like that but if it cranks the switch is the cuplrit.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I too am leaning towards the ignition switch on this one. If the solenoid was bad normally a screwdriver jump won't fix it on a VW starter - one has to whack or tap it to get it unstuck. The OP is also not complaining that it turns over slow so that probably eliminates the battery. That leaves the switch.

If you want you can solder a long speaker wire to a 194 bulb, tape it at the bulb and put alligator clips on the end. Hook one clip to the spade coming from the ignition and the other to the frame. Put the bulb where you can see it. Turn the key and see if it lights up. if it does then the solenoid is getting voltage. If it doesn't light up replace the switch.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We had a hot start issue over a summer of trips (nothing quite like lying in a puddle with rain lashing down doing the screwdriver start), and over the winter when I had the engine out I took the starter off, replaced the bushing and took the solenoid apart (as apart as I could without disconnecting any wires) cleaned out all the old grease and re-greased it. (also cleaned all the contacts on the starter, the tranny ground strap connection and replaced the positive battery cable)Have not had the problem again.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A new positive battery cable and nice clean contacts on the starter has since cured my hot start issues
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mine did that until I cleaned the ground strap between the transmission and frame. It has not given me any problems for the last fifteen years or so.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's the starter bushing. It gets hot and its geometry changes clamping down so hard on the starter that it can't turn. Get a starter for an auto stick bug. They don't have starter bushings.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kiptere wrote:
It's the starter bushing. It gets hot and its geometry changes clamping down so hard on the starter that it can't turn. Get a starter for an auto stick bug. They don't have starter bushings.


That would be pretty bad advice if he is talking about his '79 which would have come with an 091 tranny like all '76 and later US Type 2's. Crying or Very sad

FWIW, I cleaned and relubed the solenoid on my starter, circa 1993, and it is still working fine today. Of course the battery cables, ground strap, and ignition switch have all been well maintained and/or replaced as needed over the years. The starting system responds to good maintenance better than just about any other system on a vehicle.
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Joey
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wildthings wrote:
Kiptere wrote:
It's the starter bushing. It gets hot and its geometry changes clamping down so hard on the starter that it can't turn. Get a starter for an auto stick bug. They don't have starter bushings.


That would be pretty bad advice if he is talking about his '79 which would have come with an 091 tranny like all '76 and later US Type 2's. Crying or Very sad


That and if it was the bushing it wouldn't start with a screwdriver either.

I'll try pulling the plug off the ignition switch and jumping the red and red/black wires the next time it happens. For the time being I added wires to terminals 50 & 30 on the solenoid and fed them through the bulkhead under the Z-bed. I put a push button switch on the wires so if it happens again I don't have to crawl under the bus with a screwdriver.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joey wrote:
I put a push button switch on the wires so if it happens again I don't have to crawl under the bus with a screwdriver.

Woooo....deluxe!, I've used a single wire from 50 to back near the + battery terminal, your setup doesn't even require going outside, sweet!
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kiptere wrote:
It's the starter bushing. It gets hot and its geometry changes clamping down so hard on the starter that it can't turn. Get a starter for an auto stick bug. They don't have starter bushings.


This would be my guess too. I had the same problem with a 63 bug (converted to 12v), changed the starter to an auto unit and the problem went away.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bobnorman wrote:
Kiptere wrote:
It's the starter bushing. It gets hot and its geometry changes clamping down so hard on the starter that it can't turn. Get a starter for an auto stick bug. They don't have starter bushings.


This would be my guess too. I had the same problem with a 63 bug (converted to 12v), changed the starter to an auto unit and the problem went away.


because you changed the solenoid with it. Besides an 091 combo 2L won't take an autostick starter.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SGKent wrote:
bobnorman wrote:
Kiptere wrote:
It's the starter bushing. It gets hot and its geometry changes clamping down so hard on the starter that it can't turn. Get a starter for an auto stick bug. They don't have starter bushings.


This would be my guess too. I had the same problem with a 63 bug (converted to 12v), changed the starter to an auto unit and the problem went away.


because you changed the solenoid with it. Besides an 091 combo 2L won't take an autostick starter.

Or perhaps all the terminal disturbing had something to do with it?, next time try removing and reinstalling the same starter, you may get a pleasant suprise Wink
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i have a 78 automatic that i just put a new ignition switch, starter, and cleaned all connections and had it charging perfectly, and starting every time. guy took it on a trip and after highway miles, had a hot start problem. he made it home by whacking the starter....but its a NEW starter! any ideas?
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stuartzickefoose wrote:
i have a 78 automatic that i just put a new ignition switch, starter, and cleaned all connections and had it charging perfectly, and starting every time. guy took it on a trip and after highway miles, had a hot start problem. he made it home by whacking the starter....but its a NEW starter! any ideas?


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stuartzickefoose wrote:
i have a 78 automatic that i just put a new ignition switch, starter, and cleaned all connections and had it charging perfectly, and starting every time. guy took it on a trip and after highway miles, had a hot start problem. he made it home by whacking the starter....but its a NEW starter! any ideas?


yes - two possibilities

(1) it is a rebuilt starter you mean? They test them and then if they work ship them, They don't rebuild the solenoid if it pulls in. Guy who owned it before you probably had the same issue if it is rebuilt. Have to replace the solenoid with a new one or lube it.

(2) your neutral switch could be going bad
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've experienced this problem and it came down to the water level in my battery. Drive for any extended period of time and it would not start. Low levels of water in the battery can quickly discharge a battery to where you loose your cranking amps. I've experienced broken battery cables as well. As long as you don't have grease or grime on your starter post and connections, you may want to try there.
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