engine lack of power at 7000 feet

[rubbachicken]

we are having trouble with lucy high up in santa fe, we are at 7000 feet, since we got up here we have had a lack of power
i have had a search, and cannot see anything there relating to tuning the engine to make it run happier
i have seen a couple of vanagons up here, and i'm sure they run OK if they live here


any idea's as to how i tune the engine for this altitude


we had hoped to go towards colorado, at this point she won't make it over the hills
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lucy our westy

lucy's BIG adventure

meet 'burni'

[?Waldo?]

7,000 ft will make a naturally aspirated engine operate at about 80-85% power. If that is what you are experiencing, then that's the cost of tea in China. If you are experiencing a more significant power loss than that, then you have a problem. Is the tailpipe blackened? O2 sensor might be bad and not compensating for the altitude and the cat could be plugging. Temp sensor can do similar.

[Wildthings]

Where is your timing set? With no MAP sensor your system will not automatically try to correct timing and fuel for altitude. Advancing the timing a 2-3 degrees beyond what you run a sea level will often buy you a bit more power.

[Randy in Maine]

[Zeitgeist 13]

This is one of the reasons why boosted engines are so desirable
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Casey--

'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik?

[Howesight]

High altitude can rob your engine of power as described by the others above. I agree you can sefely add ignition advance to recover some power. This is only doable because the thin air reduces the chance of knock occurring. Once in the lower elevations, you will need to re-adjust ignition timing or use premium gas.
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'86 Syncro Westy SVX

[Jon_slider]

its the altitude

I lived in Santa Fe with a Syncro Westy powered by a 2.2 Subaru. I thought the motor was a total dog, I got passed by Semi Trucks on the way up to Flagstaff. When I moved to sea level I began to understand why people like that motor..

each 1000 feet costs you 3.5% of your power, so you are running about 24.5% below normal power levels.

not much you can do.

even my TDi is a DOG at 9000 feet coming off a stop. The boost does not come on until after 1800 rpm. I had to use Granny Gear to leave stop signs, at sea level 1st works awesome..

since you are there, I suggest you accept that 3rd gear and 4500 rpm are your friends when going uphill.. dont be afraid to run your tach above the green zone.

One of my favorite places to drive in Santa Fe, is up to the Ski Area. You will be in 2nd gear most of the way. Before you reach the top there is a beautiful pull out, with a toilet and creeks and aspens, called Big Tesuque.

In town, I recommend you stop by The CowGirl, a restaurant and locals bar near the railyard.. The food is great.

You can do Colorado, just not in 4th gear

like others said, use regular gas at altitudes above 5000 feet.. Premium wont help you at altitude
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My Soapboxes: Inflation; Handling; Gearing; Decoupling; Swepco

[joetiger]

I know how you feel.

Vail Pass (11k feet) at 25-30 MPH is a way of life with a 1.9. I've done it with three of them. I've found that other cars can see you from a mile away and they tend to plan accordingly. Also use the pullout lanes liberally; you're not in a hurry, so a quick stop won't hurt anything.

Enjoy the scenery (as soon as that next semi finishes passing you.)
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Joe T.

'86 NAHT Vanagon GL Syncro/ supercharged ABA 2.0 "Pigpen"
'91 Wolfsburg Carat "Barchetta"
'02 Baja-ish Beetle "Bubbles"

"get metaphysical with it. if it's simply a means to get to and from places, it will let you down. if it becomes your zen, it can't fail you." -dabaron

"Still, it's good to be afield."--VWagabond

Justice for Megan: https://linktr.ee/justiceformegantrussell

[joseph928]

I live at 7,000 feet And thought my 2.3 just went OK still better than my 1.9. Wow then went to BBB at 500 feet thought I had a turbo!
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1987 syncro westy tin top sun roof , GW2.3, rear locker, decoupler, Gary Lee tire rack & winch mount, lift, south african grill, big brakes , rhein alloy ,15 BFG AT, Fiamma 10 foot awning ,140 watt rear 85 watt front solar , mppt, truckfridge, automatic fire extinguishing system, tencent oil cooler, And a RMW SS exhaust! - 1971 bug convertible 1776 engine- 2010 Subaru turbo - 1993 Toyota 4x4 truck - 1999 Harley 95 CI, big bore, Andrews cams . Also 80-84- vans. Stock 65 sunroof bug.

[wasserbox]

[rubbachicken]

so i've been out looking at lucy's motor
i have given it about 2° advance, it sounds a little better
i compression tested the motor at 7000'

# 1 ~ 112 psi
# 2 ~ 119psi
# 3 ~ 75 psi
# 4 ~ 129 psi

last time i compression tested it at sea level it was

# 1 ~ 126 psi
# 2 ~ 161 psi
# 3 ~ 118 psi
# 4 ~ 149 psi

i put a couple of squirts of oil in # 3 and the compression stayed the same, to me reads valve adjustment is needed, i hope i've not got early signs of a burnt valve

i'm now about to go out and get a new fuel filter, air filter, and i have replaced the aux air valve, in the hope it might help a little
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lucy our westy

lucy's BIG adventure

meet 'burni'

[rubbachicken]

so, adjusting the timing has made a big difference to the engine, the first try to get up to where we are, was a long slow trip in 2nd gear, this morning we went up it in 3rd even accelerating a bit.


so now we are faced with another dilemma, we have people to visit in denver, should we attempt it or cut our losses and head west
_________________
lucy our westy

lucy's BIG adventure

meet 'burni'

[AnmlMthrM60]

[Ahwahnee]

I've made that drive countless times with my 84 & the 1.9L.

Only problem encountered was as we went over Molas Pass (just under 11K) a bag of potato chips exploded. Must have been packaged at sea level. Gave me a bad moment until I realized what had happened.

[jerrydog411]

[tschroeder0]

come to denver, I'll buy you a beer

[AnmlMthrM60]

[Terry Kay]

Zetec
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T.K.

[tschroeder0]

It's about 6 hrs to the Ouray area from Boulder, great drive though!

I'm not really sure what all the fuss is about with altitude, it's all I drive and despite having just finished my suby swap, for the last ten years it was all with a stocker.
One thing I wonder is "how" people drive, remember you can and should be revving pretty high to get into the power and stay there. My routine on I-70 (and all passes) on the steepest parts was 3rd gear wide open, I could easily stay at about 45mph (which is not bad) I was always faster than the truckers. I am willing to bet that a lot of people are easier than they need to be on the stock engine, I never, ever jam gears though!

[Udo7]

I'm up at 8300 feet in Nederland, 9000 in Ward. My '90 2.1 does fine as long as I plan ahead. Coming up I-70 over the passes can be painful, so I just stay in the right lane and downshift a lot. I just finished a Subaru 2.5 conversion that should make a big difference.