1970 vw westy build !

[david2676]

Ok I am finally going to do this right. A few have suggested I start a thread for obvious reasons. latter today I will post a few photos, heck maybe make a video but for now I have a few questions. My plan is to make my bus reliable. At least as much as I can.

My bus is a 1970 Westy, it came to me pretty much stock. I paid I whooping $1200 for it drove it two hours in the rain and wind praying I would make it with the generator light on the entire way. I have had it for several years and used to for fun. Now I want to take it on a road trip. I have no idea why I never thought of doing this when I first bought it. I do a bit of photography and it would be fun to travel where ever in the bus for that purpose. For now I am thinking about doing a cross the USA trip Ca for Maine and back. Lately I have given some thought to S. America maybe all the way to Peru?
When I bought my bus I happened by a lot that had a 69 bus with two spare motors and parts in it. I picked up including towing a few blocks to my house for $100. So I have access to some spares.

The motor in my 70 westy runs well, actually it starts really well but I have no idea how many miles are on it. So I made the decision to renew the engine with a 1176 from Adrian and headflowmasters. I went with an used core because he said he trusted them and would no use them if they were bad. I have had it a few weeks. I plan to pull out the motor in the bus and leave it complete for now. I am only going to steal the electronic ignition. This way I have a running motor as a spare.

Todays questions:


1. does anyone sell a set of screws and nuts for the bolt on parts ?

2. anyone have a good diagram of where the tins all go. its been a few weeks and I cant recall the exact location of a few.

3. I have an oil cooler from the parts bus it actually has two with a screw on filter. They look in good condition so I plan to use the filter and cooler ! anything I should know about doing this besides getting new hoses?

4. What clutch/pressure plate and bearing is best ?

5. I am going to go with a single carb to eliminate the trouble of doing the two carb setup and having to maintain them. Anyone disagree ? What Carb would you put on ?

6. I am going move my electronic ignition to the 1776. Do distributors break often ? should I go new or if I am doing the electronic ignition am I ok reusing a Dist body.


Lastly for this post .. where is the best place to get parts. I have had bad luck with a couple of the big mail order places, Who has the best supply .
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64 bug
91 Vanagon/ Subaru swap Westfalia

[Tcash]

Hi
1. does anyone sell a set of screws and nuts for the bolt on parts ?
http://www.kustom1warehouse.net/Sheet_metal_engine_tin_screws_for_VW_p/n107108.htm
http://www.mcmaster.com/

2. anyone have a good diagram of where the tins all go. its been a few weeks and I cant recall the exact location of a few.
Thanks to jeerseylooker.Early Baywindow Bus Parts Book
http://www.jerseylooker.com/FicheDump/EarlyBaywindow/EarlyBay-1.html
Youtube Videos Look for 1776 assembly.


3. I have an oil cooler from the parts bus it actually has two with a screw on filter. They look in good condition so I plan to use the filter and cooler ! anything I should know about doing this besides getting new hoses?
The engine case needs to be full flowed to use them.

4. What clutch/pressure plate and bearing is best ?
Clutches - what pressure plate with what throwout bearing

5. I am going to go with a single carb to eliminate the trouble of doing the two carb setup and having to maintain them. Anyone disagree ? What Carb would you put on ?
http://www.volkzbitz.com/

6. I am going move my electronic ignition to the 1176 Probably 1776. Do distributors break often ? should I go new or if I am doing the electronic ignition am I ok reusing a Dist body. [url]
Depends on the dizzy you have. Post the numbers on the side of it.

[david2676]

My question for today, What Oil cooler would you run a Dog house or an external ail cooler with a spin on filter. I was told the dog house out performs the externals even with the added amount of oil ? does anyone know this for fact. I have one I was planning on using until I was told to keep the dog house!
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64 bug
91 Vanagon/ Subaru swap Westfalia

[busdaddy]

Keep the doghouse and make sure all the tin is real German stuff and properly sealed, EMPI and chrome stuff lacks the internal deflectors to make the air do what it's supposed to. A full flow with an external filter is money well spent and if you find it's still running hot for some strange reason you can add a cooler later. Some also like a deep sump but if you plan on alot of off roading there's an added danger for damage and stranding, but those extra quarts are sure nice to have along otherwise.

A happy well tuned motor with the correct transmission ratios and proper tin needs no help with cooling, even if the displacement is much larger than stock.
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[david2676]

As I install my tin, I am finding or learning more and more about how a VW is supposed to look.

1. I do not have thermo flaps on my shroud .. in warm climates like Ca I do not see this to be a problem anyone disagree ?

2. I do not have a hoover piece is it possible that my tin does not need one ? or did someone take it off.
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64 bug
91 Vanagon/ Subaru swap Westfalia

[busdaddy]

The flaps play a part in engine life and air distribution even in warm climates, if you have it apart now there's no better time to find and install them even if you wire them open until you find a thermostat.
You also need the Hoover bit, they crack and fall off over time and many "experts" or "old timers" think they don't do anything so they leave them off (just like the flaps). Never try to outsmart an office tower full of meticulous German engineers, VW didn't put anything on thier products that wasn't absolutely necessary in some little but important way.
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[wcfvw69]

Mechanics back when VW's were plentiful, daily drivers, were lazy in many cases. They didn't want to deal with the flaps, thermostat linkage or adjustments, so they simply removed them during overhauls. It was VERY prevalent in California where VW's were everywhere back in the day. They used the ole "those parts are really for cold weather areas, they are not needed in sunny California".

I remember going to a VW shop in the early 80's in S. California. They had buckets of old thermostats and flap assemblies they had removed.

As Bus Daddy stated, I trust the VERY smart Germans who engineered these cars more than a VW mechanic. I live in hot as holy hell PHX and all my VW's have the flap assemblies and thermostats hooked up. The flaps direct cooling air at the heads and cylinders like the vanes in the fan shroud do.
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[david2676]

1. I have a exhaust system original in fairly good condition would you reuse it or buy a newer model ?

2. what 34 pict carb works best ?

3. re use intake manifold ? is there a benefit to a new manifold over stock ?

4. fuel pump ? electric fuel pumps are they any good ?


any opinions I need to order a few items?
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64 bug
91 Vanagon/ Subaru swap Westfalia

[Danwvw]

Is this a 1971 Dual Port style engine? Or is it the 1970 and earlier Single Port engine? Is it a Dual Relief case? Are your Oil coolers Aluminum or Steel?

What I am trying to understand is if you know what you have for parts because it sounds like all the year models you mentioned (69 and 70) are going to be the early style type 1 engines. You should stick to single port heads with them but I would still try to up-grade to an Alternator and a Dog-House FanShroud with the 37mm Fan and the Aluminum off-set oil cooler and I would add a full flow filter unit too.

Even better would be to up-grade everything case included to the fully evolved type 1 engine. Dual Relief Case, Dog-House Style Dual Port and PICT 34/3 Carb. The Fully evolved engine is better at pulling a bus and will run cooler in it. Your 1970 Case may be a Dual Relief Case But probably has 10mm studs and you will need to have them inserted and have #3 top outside stud Deep Inserted too. The 34-Pict-3 Carburetor for the Dual Port Head Engines works fine with a mechanical Fuel Pump or Electric fuel Pump. If you look at Electric fuel pumps you want 2-3 lbs of pressure for it. Only the fuel injected engines run the higher pressure fuel pumps. As for the intake manifold the thing to look for is that it is still open through the heat riser pipe. It could use a good cleaning in that heat riser pipe then be re-used. This is true for either Single Port head Manifolds or Dual Port head Manifolds. Check out CIP1 for the Euro-Max PICT 34 Carb, Some like it best.
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[david2676]

Thanks for you advice ..

Let me clarify, the motor is a 1776 its a rebuild from headflowmasters. it is a dual port. I want to keep the motor as reliable as possible. I have few other items i need to work out ..

for example do I use my Compu fire I believe its the DIS its the unit with a its own coil. someone suggested this was more of a racing item. I will say though I really like it but I don't know how it is for long distance driving. http://www.compufire.com/index.php?option=com_cont...p;Itemid=9

So far the advice is to keep the dog house .. is there a way to add a full flow filter with a dog house ? I was told the dog house over all provided the best cooling when setup in the original configuration it is supposed to out perform the after market stuff. I would like to use a full flow just for the add volume and protection.

there is the entire deal of setting up the fuel pump, dist and carb so they all work well... Most of the information I have head via the phone the type that they do not want to say what is best just to look at these issues.

I am doing the 12v alternator as well.
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64 bug
91 Vanagon/ Subaru swap Westfalia

[Danwvw]

A Full flow oil return, is a hole that gets drilled into the case when the engine is re-built. It is something that Head Flow Masters would do for you. You would just add the filter, the oil filter adaptor and hoses to a special oil pump cover. Because of the way the mustache bar mounts about 1 inch in back of the oil pump Right angle and 45' angle fittings are used on the return and supply on a bus engine (doghouse or not). It fits. Here is a photo of mine. I went with a non pressure relief EMPI Cover not as nice as the Gene Berg one. As far as carb and distributor the Original OEM ones used rebuilt would be ok. Or you could do the euro-max and one of the flame thrower kit distributors. The 205 Distributors are the right ones for the PICT 34-3. I should add there is a little more to full flow not talked about much. The case and the Oil filter both get a pipe plug at the original oil pump output. Also the correct oil filters must be run and RPM's must be kept low when the engine is cold to keep from over pressuring and bursting lines etc. especially if you have a 26mm or larger oil pump. Thin weight oil helps. I would use 5W30 winter and 10W40 Summer. The " Compu-fire" would be sweet! But carry a stock point's distributor around for back up.

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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[david2676]

Thank you for the explanation, I had no idea exactly what a full flow system was I wish i knew before. Oh well next time.
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64 bug
91 Vanagon/ Subaru swap Westfalia

[richparker]

[david2676]

Thanks, I am ordering one right now ! that will solve all my issues with this subject. I can add a filter and if the dog house is not enough it will be simple to add another in line cooler.
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64 bug
91 Vanagon/ Subaru swap Westfalia

[Danwvw]

I have run the filter pumps on bugs? And this cover is a similar thing. It should be a good thing to do. Probably just run the filter though. Don't want too much volume there it can cause some real oil drain back problems.
Looks, like this one is designed for a specific oil pump. Be sure to get the right one for your cam and engine case year! Usually you want the early one for a flat cam. The Dish cam takes a different oil pump.

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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[david2676]

where I am at today !

1. Long block is almost assembled. Because I am keeping my old motor I have to use tins and bits from the spares I have laying around. Lucky when I bought a bug for my kid the guy gave me all his spares along with two motors.

2. all new brakes in the rear !

3. I went thru the wheel bearings. after I got them back together they seemed stiff I am guessing the new wheel seals cause a bit of drag. Rather than worrying about it I decided to strip them apart and replace the bearings. Honestly I think the bearing were good for awhile more. It was more of a piece of mind. Its hard to get that 200lb torqued bold off I would rather avoid doing in on the side of the road so I opted to replace the bearings and be done for the next 200,000 miles. Funny thing with the castle bolt loose they spin like a skate board wheel. under torque they slow down ? this has to be normal because both wheels do it. I compared every thing with what I see in the Bently it all looks good. I have never tried to spin the wheel with the axle off so I always assumed the drag was normal.

4. new Cv's ready to go back in.

I keep thinking I have a long time I am planning on taking off around April at the start of spring. Lately I have gotten the travel bug again its been a almost a year since I have taken a trip. going to Cuba trip #4 in Sept for a month so hopefully that will resolve my travel virus. I hope to have all the big stuff done before I go so I only need to do the cometic items.
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64 bug
91 Vanagon/ Subaru swap Westfalia

[david2676]

I have been researching the suspension mods to help with stability.

1. what I am reading the toss up is 185 or 195 tires ? any thoughts here ?

2. I have KYB's

3. Sway bars, Honestly the font looks like it has a sway bar but I am not sure if that is stock? I want to put a rear sway bar as I see it I think that is where a lot of the roll comes from as least as you push thru a gust of air it seems to me the rear end moves the most?

Overall I would like to stiffen up the ride. Of course I do not want to make it uncomfortably stiff so that is vibrates everything to death. Just enough to improve handling.

is there anything I am missing here ?
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64 bug
91 Vanagon/ Subaru swap Westfalia

[Lionhart94010]

Regarding rear sway bar, you should read what Richard Atwell wrote about rear sway bars, good Kony Shocks and proper tires should make the ride stable…

http://www.ratwell.com/technical/SwayBars.html

If you have not already, reading http://www.ratwell.com/technical/EssentialUpgrades.html is something you will not regret especially if you will be making long road trips…

Also adding oil temp & pressure, a Dakota digital CHT gauge as well as an air fuel(AF) ratio meter will protect your investment and make sure you do not cook your engine going over the Rockies, and the AF although somewhat expensive($250) it will let you tune it like a pro, it’s hard(IMO impossible) to tune a stock engine using the lean idle drop method on a stock carb, as described in the VW Manual, let alone a custom built engine… take my word for it, it will be the best engine add-on you ever made, when your engine is running baldly; all you have to do is look at your AF meter and 9/10 times you will know why (it’s running lean)


http://www.cbperformance.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=2926 ( ask about extension wire for bus install)
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Current VWs 71 T2 Westy SO-72/6(Miami), 71 Crew Cab, 2015 GSW TDI
Other owned VW’s 59, 68 1500s, 69 & 71 Bug’s; 72 & 73 S-Bug’s; 67 Westy, 67 Deluxe, Other 71 DC, 72 KG GT that now lives in Australia, 12 JSW TDI, 2015 GSW TDI, 2023 Tiguan
VW technical information sights
thesamba - www.ratwell.com - www.shoptalkforums.com/ - www.vw-resource.com - http://www.type2.com/
http://bobhooversblog.blogspot.com/ - www.aircooled.net/gnrlsite/resource/articles.htm

[david2676]

I guess I missed the boat on this one when I had my motor built, I don't know why it was never brought up. I did ask about oil coolers the builders I spoke to said the dog house cooler was enough.

1, would you replace the cooler with a new one of keep the German made? Aside from being original functionally would I get better cooling form a new doghouse.

2. full flow I want to avoid drilling the case if I can. I am certain I can do it but I do not want to risk damaging the motor. I am thinking of using one of the full flow oil pumps from CBperformance. It seems like an easy fit will allow a filter and a second cooler.

do I really need to this? or am i talking myself into something that I really do not need? One builder suggested doing a deep sump. over all they consensus was keep the dog house design but make certain all the tin and engine bay seals were intact to keep the proper air flow thru.
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64 bug
91 Vanagon/ Subaru swap Westfalia

[busdaddy]

Any time is full flow time because filters are great but there's no need for additional coolers, the stock doghouse is very adequate when all the tin is in place and the engine is tuned well, even with larger displacement engines.
A sump helps too as long as it's a quality one and you don't do any crazy offroading.
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.

Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

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