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Metal Fuel rails.. GoWesty? VanCafe? Others?
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djkeev
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 6:10 am    Post subject: Metal Fuel rails.. GoWesty? VanCafe? Others? Reply with quote

About to pull the trigger on Aluminum Fuel Rails......
Two main contenders........
Bus Depot may have them but honestly, their web site is so frickin cumbersome! I searched for "fuel rail" and got valve cover gaskets!
I looked around in various ways to no avail........give up!

Anyway, rant over........
Besides style and price....... Is one superior to the other??? GoWesty has a lot more threaded joints...........

GoWesty.........
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VanCafe.......
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Dave
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Last edited by djkeev on Mon Apr 20, 2015 1:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Gizmoman
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave,
The gowesty units are much cheaper as the price includes both units. Van Cafe's price is for one only.

I'd pick the gowesty bits and install them with the logo upside down. I don't care for advertisements in my engine bay.
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big toe
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used rails from a 914. They're cheap and not hard to find, although they do need a bit different fuel line routing.
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trip'n
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

running van cafes since 2011 w/o any problems
+
i kinda like those boys
fast...courteous..service
even though i do prefer da famous amos
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I went with the Van Cafe version....
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't worry to much a bout the threaded bits. Rarely do they leak.

Hard to beat the Gowesty ones, especially with the Turkey day sale. plus they look so cool even I want one and Im running a Suby!

Neil2
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djkeev
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I went ahead and got GoWesty's Rails. $25 less for what I hope is a good item..... We will see.....

Between the 15% off and GoWesty bucks I ended up with free shipping plus a dollar off.

Thanks for the feed back! I like the upside down mounting idea!

Lazy morning, cleaned up yesterdays snow storm, helping the wife with dinner and relaxing while awaiting family to arrive...... Good time to order! Smile

Dave
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bluebus86
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The old TypeIV all metal injection rails found in some baywindow vans and the 914 car make excellent vanagon fuel rails, and being all metal have no leak issues.

That is what I use in my 1986 Vanagon.

Here is a photo of one (hooked to the manifold) taken from the want ads....


http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1656273

inexpensive and very effective, of course I just happened to have a some laying around from my 914 days so it cost me nothing.
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msinabottle
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 4:19 pm    Post subject: One and Done? Reply with quote

I went with and would still go with the Van Cafe--seamless, one-piece metal. If you're getting rid of the perfectly serviceable nylon ones to prevent the POSSIBILITY of disaster, the Go Westy version would still have a FAINTER possibility of disaster. I went for FAINTEST.

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and

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My call, but, my thinking...

Best!
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bluebus86 wrote:
The old TypeIV all metal injection rails found in some baywindow vans and the 914 car make excellent vanagon fuel rails, and being all metal have no leak issues.


One thing I like about these older ones is that because of their extra width and the slight spread angle for the end nipples the hoses lay a bit neater. Seems like others could duplicate this easily enough but they don't.

That said I just purchased a set of Go Westy ones.
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The Machinist
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:10 am    Post subject: Re: One and Done? Reply with quote

msinabottle wrote:
I went with and would still go with the Van Cafe--seamless, one-piece metal. If you're getting rid of the perfectly serviceable nylon ones to prevent the POSSIBILITY of disaster, the Go Westy version would still have a FAINTER possibility of disaster. I went for FAINTEST.

My call, but, my thinking...

Best!


I make Van Cafe's fuel rails. I take that risk very seriously. I leak test every single fuel rail at 90 PSI before I take them over to the guys at Van Cafe.
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The Machinist
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wildthings wrote:
bluebus86 wrote:
The old TypeIV all metal injection rails found in some baywindow vans and the 914 car make excellent vanagon fuel rails, and being all metal have no leak issues.


One thing I like about these older ones is that because of their extra width and the slight spread angle for the end nipples the hoses lay a bit neater. Seems like others could duplicate this easily enough but they don't.


This sounds interesting. I searched for a picture of the 914 rails, but couldn't find one. I would like to see what they look like to see if I can improve the design on mine.
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Machinist wrote:
Wildthings wrote:
bluebus86 wrote:
The old TypeIV all metal injection rails found in some baywindow vans and the 914 car make excellent vanagon fuel rails, and being all metal have no leak issues.


One thing I like about these older ones is that because of their extra width and the slight spread angle for the end nipples the hoses lay a bit neater. Seems like others could duplicate this easily enough but they don't.


This sounds interesting. I searched for a picture of the 914 rails, but couldn't find one. I would like to see what they look like to see if I can improve the design on mine.


The Bay Window rails are just made out of tubing and are brazed or silver soldered. A test ports as shown wouldn't be necessary since the Vanagon has a test port in another location.

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Snort
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a side-by-side.

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61Scout
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm building my own. Don't know if I'll keep those barb fittings, just a mock up at this point.

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-Kevin
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Snort wrote:
Here is a side-by-side.

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Interesting. These don't even look like they perform the same function, though. The black plastic rail has a larger volume chamber. Does the 2.1 run OK with the type 4 rails? It seems like they would mess with the fuel injection flow.

As far as the orientation of the ports, the outer angled ports would complicate machining considerably.
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like you could take the bay rail and make a splice in the center to get the spread right for the Vanagon intakes. Everything would fit after that. As far as machining something with the same kinds of angles, yes that would be a problem. Does the volume chamber actually have a function? Don't know what the 914 rails look like so can't comment on those.
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The Machinist
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always assumed the chamber was a sort of buffer to smooth the fuel flow and keep constant pressure. Otherwise the fuel rail seems superfluous. Why not just run the lines directly? I have read that hot-rodded 914s starve for fuel because the chamber is too small on the stock fuel rails.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The size of the chamber is not important as long as it doesn't restrict the 8mm flow anywhere. The lines will be solid with fuel and the pressure controlled by the regulator.

Btw, if anyone is interested in some details... My little homemade fuel rail ^ there is made from all off-the-shelf parts totaling about $20 for both rails (minus the gauge). They're just distribution rails for air lines (can find on ebay or amazon) and then the fittings themselves... which can be found at any hardware store, though cheaper to buy in bulk of course. On the long ends are threaded holes too, one of which you can see I attached a gauge, the other end just has a plug. Adding the permanent gauge does add a little weight and as such I plan to build a bracket on that side, but the manifold w/o the gauge is plenty light enough to be supported by the hoses like the original.

Kevin
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've read many comments about how that large chamber must be flow related, nobody has ever come up with a reasonable explanation to sustain that theory. Fuel doesn't compress so adding volume to the system doesn't make sense from a buffering standpoint. The fuel pump is dumping plenty of fuel back into the tank to maintain correct pressure so any high demand for fuel ought to be easily handled by the pump. My own theory is that whoever was in charge of production and tooling for this unit decided it would add strength to the nylon/plastic whatever it's made of to keep the joints between the body and the nipples strong or in other words it just made sense in their materials/method analysis.

For fun Confused I chopped a piece out of one of these Type 4 rails and joined it with fuel line. The angled inlet/outlet parts gave me no advantage in routing fuel lines in fact I unbent them slightly to make the lines fit better on the right side of the motor. With only one of them in place on a stock 2.1 there is absolutely no difference in the performance of the motor. I can't see adding two more clamps to the system being a good thing so until I can get around to sleeving and soldering the joint I'm currently running the Van Cafe rails and holding on to the Type 4 ones for a backup injector project which may or may not ever happen. Thanks "The Machinist" for making these, they just fit and work and give peace of mind.
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