Valve Adjustment Lash Increasing Over Time

[Danwvw]

Type 1 Engine in the 1971 Bus, Specs Below under (1800 Type 1)
Does anyone track valve lash change for evaluation?
Over the last 6000 Plus miles the valves have loosened up as much as .019" on an exhaust while the intakes are around .013" looser to -.002" change.
Seems like my last engine was more stable. Is this normal?.

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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[[email protected]]

This is often either

lifter heads wearing abnormally (common with mismatched cam and lifters, like a "soft" Engle or CB lifter with a "hard" cam like Web or SCAT)
Pushrod tips and/or lifter CUPS wearing abnormally
Pushrod tips pounding into the pushrod
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[Danwvw]

I was told the CB-Ultra light 2 piece lifters were good to use with the Webcams, are they not? Then which lifters?
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[[email protected]]

Some people say they are fine to use together, but I disagree completely and have said so many times.

So, who told you they were ok to use together?

CB cams and lifters are a few points softer than the SCAT/Web. Even Pat from CB has stated NOT to use their lifters with "harder" SCAT/Web Cam. Even Engle is using the harder blanks now, so it gets even more complicated, because now there are "soft" and "hard" Engle cams! The cam blank will tell you which.

Virtually every time I mention it being a potential problem guys come in and tell me "it doesn't matter". EVERYTHING MATTERS!

Lots of guys buy the "best deal" they can get on lifters and mix/match whatever best deal they get on a cam, and IMO this is recipe for problems (but that's my opinion). The cam and lifters MUST match and be compatible. Even when they match you can have problems, so to roll the dice even further with incompatible parts makes no sense to me, but lots of guys do it.

I'm not saying this is your problem, but it very well may be, because I don't consider your lifters to be compatible with your cam. But again, that's just my opinion.
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[modok]

It is probably the pushrod cup sinking into the lifter. Annoying, but doesn't really hurt anything and may stop eventually.

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I hope it's something this simple. You can pull the rockers and you'll probably see this (check both ends).

[modok]

yeah, mine did that and it bothered me so after that I shimmed them all solid. The CB lifters are good material. and good design, but the fit of the cup inside them varies from loose to horribly loose.

[Danwvw]

I must have gotten the impression Webcams and CB-Ultra-Lites were ok after reading some of the builds here on the Samba. (I don't Know maybe I got it wrong!)

Switched the push-rods on the head between the cylinders after #1 exhaust valve loosened .011" in just 1350 miles. It's been 2000 miles since and only .005" increase on that one this time. I will keep an eye on them.

I have been running 1/2 a bottle of the Lucus ZDDP additive each oil change, perhaps something better is in order! Any recommendations? The motor oil is Castrol 5W30!

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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[fivelugshortaxle]

[Danwvw]

I forgot it this last change, Will see how it goes with out it then. I think I was putting a hole bottle in at first, I think it should be probably just a 1/2 a bottle per 5 quarts or 1/4 per change with the Castrol! Probably stick with the Castrol as it cost a lot less and has always served me well, I have never lost an engine due to rod bearing failure since I discovered it about 20 years ago. Before I would always loose a rod bearing at around 50,000 miles. But yeah, Brad Penn! That would be a big deal for me to start running that stuff!

The only cam I have ever lost was a 36 horse, It had been setting a while before I bought the car. Think it was the water in the oil that caused that!
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[fivelugshortaxle]

[bluebus86]

I always get my cam and lifters as a matched set. That way I know they are ground right and of the right hardness to work together. of course it could be a case of a loose valve seat letting go, that does happen and some times it can reverse reducing the valve lash if it does settle back into the head, but it will come loose again increasing valve lash.

and yes I always record before and after valve lash measurements, a useful tool for detecting probelms
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Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information

Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022

[Danwvw]

Thanks for all this info. Good to know. Back to the normal change in valve adjustment: What should it be. Like Plus .010" in 10000 miles? Minus .010"? Given that valve seats may ware down causing valves to tighten, perhaps an overall average over the life of the engine of Zero!
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[bluebus86]

[modok]

It depends entirely on the parts.
Stock lifters and cam and adjuster nubs did tend to wear at a slow but more or less constant pace AND faster than the valves and seats wore, so if I remember right you'd find the lash a thou loose or two at adjustment time regularly.



If you had really good valvetrain stuff, and AMC heads with the soft as butter seats and guides they used to put in those, then they'd be tightening up to zero every 2000 miles.

Be glad your on the safe side of the spectrum.

[Danwvw]

Thanks, Good to Know I am on the safe side! Found this on the Lucas: http://lucasoil.com/pdf/TDS_Break-In-Additive.pdf it says that 1 bottle 16 oz brings 4.5 quarts of oil to 5000 ppm and it looks like my GTX 5W30 has 830 ppm of ZDDP to start with Just eye-balling this it looks like the 1/2 Bottle of Lucas ZDDP to 5 Quart Bottle of GTX should be at least 1250ppm
As I am close to having the spare engine ready to assemble and have already purchased CB-Performance Ultra-Light lifters to go with the Web-Cam, should I order the scat lightweight lifters and use those CB-Perforamance lifters for something with an Eagle Cam? Might be good to pull the bus engine down and see what's going on do you think?
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[modok]

The concern is that WEB began using some different camshaft blanks a year ago, or maybe two years ago.

If the cam has ep-12 cast in it, then your good to go.

If it has sc-1 cast on, then you need scat or engle lifters.

If it says nothing, be afraid LOL

[bluebus86]

[SGKent]

better call Steve at Webcam and discuss with him. The numbers you gave are quite a bit. It does not have to be in the cam and lifters however. It can be other places. Make sure the rockers are not coming loose too.

In answer to the original question - every one of us who is concerned about the health of our engines tracks the changes in valve wear. There are also oil tests that can be done to see what elements are present in the oil and how much. if it is steel, you can also drag a magnet around in the drained oil and see how much iron it grabs.
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"Most people don't know what they're doing, and a lot of them are really good at it." - George Carlin

[bluebus86]