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ron3865 Samba Member
Joined: December 15, 2011 Posts: 152 Location: usa
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Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 7:15 pm Post subject: Auto vs 4 sp |
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I've had a couple of baywindows and now looking for a Vanagon Westaflia. I have never considered an automatic trans...maybe I'm just old fashioned.
Anyway, I came across a really nice looking 1990 with an auto. My question is...all things being equal, is there an advantage of one over the other? Also, is one more trouble prone?
It's easy enough to see if there are leaks and a test drive should tell me how it shifts, but I don't know exactly how it supposed to shift. I'm thinking of the late model Harley trans...it works fine but it still shifts "harder" than other bikes that are smoother.
Should I expect it to perform as any other 27 year old car? |
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jimf909 Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2014 Posts: 7391 Location: WA/ID
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Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 7:54 pm Post subject: Re: Auto vs 4 sp |
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Do y'all have oil threads on the bay forum? Auto v manual is a bit like that round these parts. Lots of good opinions in favor of both. I prefer a manual cause I've never considered an auto. Lots of folks will say I'm missing out on a great driving experience.
Some previous threads:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7786197
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=643425
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8055120 _________________ - Jim
Abscate wrote: |
Do not get killed, do not kill others.
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Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, 280 ah LFP battery, 160 watts solar, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.
Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro). |
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E1 Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2013 Posts: 6280 Location: Westfalia, Earth
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Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:30 pm Post subject: Re: Auto vs 4 sp |
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Call me old-fashioned, but if only for that chance to kick start when I *really need to*, it's always been stick for me.
Better mileage never hurts, either, nor does ability to change revs accurately when really needed -- on a moment's notice, if able -- and I'm a believer that stick well done is a helluva lot easier on motors and all drive train components as well. All control is human.
I'll always take my rigs and my cameras in manual. And like with everything else manual it seems to cost less as well.
Edit: But I have a friend loving his Auto -- so if you want it and it's a great deal, then get it. _________________ ‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman
Last edited by E1 on Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:38 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ron3865 Samba Member
Joined: December 15, 2011 Posts: 152 Location: usa
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Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:32 pm Post subject: Re: Auto vs 4 sp |
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" I prefer a manual cause I've never considered an auto"....that's sort of the way I looked at it too.
I read the suggested threads and i think what I was really looking for was not necessarily an opinion but is one factually better that the other. However, there were enough opinions in favor of the auto that I think I'll consider it. At least no one said they were a piece of crap and to stay away from them.
Change comes hard when you've spent 40 years driving a big rig and owned only manual trans cars. |
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E1 Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2013 Posts: 6280 Location: Westfalia, Earth
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Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:42 pm Post subject: Re: Auto vs 4 sp |
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Well, your stick experience will serve you well in really feeling an Auto, though.
I always felt the process to be a bit disengaging.
Signed,
A. Manuel Snobb _________________ ‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman |
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Eric_Taylor Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2011 Posts: 291 Location: Bend, Oregon
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Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:52 pm Post subject: Re: Auto vs 4 sp |
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Mine's an auto, but it just worked out that way. I got the van from a family friend, and that's what it came with. I always figured I would get a stick if I went out looking for one, for many of the reasons listed. However, I've got to say that the auto shifts nicely and works well! Mine's a rebuilt unit, and it's smooth. One other advantage of the auto, is it's less to teach someone else to drive. I let my fiancé drive day one and it was a non-issue to drive the van. I would absolutely consider the auto if I were you. I would say it comes down to the condition of the whole van, don't let the tranny dictate the choice so much. There are also a few threads on here about people praising the auto. That really helped me feel confident about my decision. |
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danfromsyr Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2004 Posts: 15119 Location: Syracuse, NY
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Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:53 pm Post subject: Re: Auto vs 4 sp |
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we have both in the family and each van is unique to it's combination of engine&transmission
I always love these threads and the multitude of posters with strong opinions and only experience in one side of the equation.
then factor in that not everybody has the same personal physical limitations and driving can be arduous.
there's really no reason to like a stick because it's more driver 'intimate' or 'organic' experience..
the automatic vanagon drives really well, especially in traffic or slow touristy places.
there's few times when i say oh heck I'm glad mine camper is a standard..
but there are times when I'd love it to be an automatic..
then again it's handy to pop start it in gear, when I've stalled it creeping along in pedestrian tourist town traffic that is.
there is a MPG penalty, but finances of westy travel are another argument altogether.
the long standing 'right' answer is to buy the van in the best overall condition. it's far more $$ and aggravation buying a poorly cared for van. _________________
Abscate wrote: |
These are the reasons we have words like “wanker” |
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E1 Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2013 Posts: 6280 Location: Westfalia, Earth
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Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:59 pm Post subject: Re: Auto vs 4 sp |
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Eric_Taylor wrote: |
One other advantage of the auto, is it's less to teach someone else to drive. I let my fiancé drive day one and it was a non-issue to drive the van. |
Oh, oh buddy, No, you mean without a pre-nup??? _________________ ‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman |
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ThankYouJerry Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2012 Posts: 2271 Location: Shakedown Street
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Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:05 pm Post subject: Re: Auto vs 4 sp |
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I've owned dozens and dozens of cars over the last 30 years. The vast majority of them have been manual. But, when I decided to buy a 2WD Westy I specifically searched with the following non-negotiable criteria:
1. It had to be auto.
2. It had to be a Weekender (Multivan).
3. It had to have a/c.
4. I planned to do an engine conversion from day one.
5. It had to be rust-free.
Why didn't I want a manual 2WD Westy you ask? Because, although I've loved all of my manual trans sports cars (including race cars), I wanted my Westy to be a comfortable cruiser. One that I didn't have to worry about rowing through the gears on all the hills I regularly drive with a hot coffee in hand taking in all the scenery.
4-5 years later... Zero regrets. Couldn't be happier with my choices.
To each his/her own.
Now, if I buy a Doka... that will be a different story _________________ 1990 Multivan - "Ohana"
1.8T, Auto w/3.27 R&P + Peloquin TBD |
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E1 Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2013 Posts: 6280 Location: Westfalia, Earth
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Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:17 pm Post subject: Re: Auto vs 4 sp |
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danfromsyr wrote: |
I always love these threads and the multitude of posters with strong opinions and only experience in one side of the equation.
then factor in that not everybody has the same personal physical limitations and driving can be arduous.
there's really no reason to like a stick because it's more driver 'intimate' or 'organic' experience. |
I would add nothing about an "organic " experience, but manual transmissions used well are safer in escaping clutch issues (Pardon the pun). _________________ ‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman |
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ThankYouJerry Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2012 Posts: 2271 Location: Shakedown Street
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Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:26 pm Post subject: Re: Auto vs 4 sp |
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E1 wrote: |
danfromsyr wrote: |
I always love these threads and the multitude of posters with strong opinions and only experience in one side of the equation.
then factor in that not everybody has the same personal physical limitations and driving can be arduous.
there's really no reason to like a stick because it's more driver 'intimate' or 'organic' experience. |
I would add nothing about an "organic " experience, but manual transmissions used well are safer in escaping clutch issues (Pardon the pun). |
Simple to overcome all of those issues with an auto Westy:
1. Don't put yourself in any (2WD ) "clutch issues".
2. Peloquin TBD.
3. New high torque starter with Westy Ventures adapter. _________________ 1990 Multivan - "Ohana"
1.8T, Auto w/3.27 R&P + Peloquin TBD |
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E1 Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2013 Posts: 6280 Location: Westfalia, Earth
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Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:28 pm Post subject: Re: Auto vs 4 sp |
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1). Deer aren't a choice.
Edit: But oh, race cars? All ears. _________________ ‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman |
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ThankYouJerry Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2012 Posts: 2271 Location: Shakedown Street
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Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:37 pm Post subject: Re: Auto vs 4 sp |
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E1 wrote: |
1). Deer aren't a choice. |
I hear you, but you mean to tell me you'll have time to react faster (brake and downshift) and actually stop faster with a manual trans than an auto if a deer jumps in front of you? Depends. But I wouldn't give the manual extra points for that one. I've been in more than a few situations with manual vehicles that you only have time to stomp on the brakes and depress the clutch... period. No better than an auto vehicle in that case. _________________ 1990 Multivan - "Ohana"
1.8T, Auto w/3.27 R&P + Peloquin TBD |
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E1 Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2013 Posts: 6280 Location: Westfalia, Earth
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Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:43 pm Post subject: Re: Auto vs 4 sp |
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You're quoting one scenario but yes, that's what I'm saying.
Autos don't allow much control beyond untethered braking. You as a race guy know this as well (been around it my whole life, five-time karting champion).
I'm not talking about racing a bus, I'm talking about controlling a car with a clutch and rpm vs. a dead stick and getting the most out of any vehicle when things get tight.
And lest we forget, the thread is about advantages and costs, not preferences. _________________ ‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman |
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ThankYouJerry Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2012 Posts: 2271 Location: Shakedown Street
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Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:58 pm Post subject: Re: Auto vs 4 sp |
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Agreed. But for the record, I frequently "shift" my auto Westy as needed, and although not quite the same as shifting a manual transmission, I find it very effective vs. not shifting it as needed. _________________ 1990 Multivan - "Ohana"
1.8T, Auto w/3.27 R&P + Peloquin TBD |
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E1 Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2013 Posts: 6280 Location: Westfalia, Earth
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Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 10:05 pm Post subject: Re: Auto vs 4 sp |
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Oh, you bet, there's ways to trick an Auto. But yeah, there's nothing wrong with 'em. _________________ ‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman |
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kamzcab86 Samba Moderator
Joined: July 26, 2008 Posts: 7877 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 10:36 pm Post subject: Re: Auto vs 4 sp |
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Automatic vs. Manual Debate
2005
2005
2008
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2009
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2015
2015
2017
GoWesty's Opinion
^Now in the FAQ.
ron3865 wrote: |
but I don't know exactly how it supposed to shift. |
Mine shifts so smoothly I often don't know if it has shifted. At this point in the game, each van is different in how they drive. I'd suggest driving this '90 and report back with anything you feel might be abnormal (pictures/video are great enhancements to text).
For the record, and I've said it a few times now, had I ruled out automatics, I would have passed up what has turned out to be a fabulous van that has taken me on lots of adventures (speaking of which, I really need to update my blog!). Furthermore, a) some injuries prevent shifting a manual... been there, done that; b) had my van been a manual, I would've gone insane last year driving through Los Angeles' nightmare traffic (timed it oh-so-wrong leaving the coast!). _________________ ~Kamz
1986 Cabriolet: www.Cabby-Info.com
1990 Vanagon Westfalia: Old Blue's Blog
2016 Golf GTI S
"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance." - 孔子 |
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Zeitgeist 13 Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009 Posts: 12102 Location: Port Manteau
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Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 11:13 pm Post subject: Re: Auto vs 4 sp |
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The Vanagon auto is generally considered to be more robust than the manuals, and is more DIY friendly for intrepid souls who wish to service their internals. I'm still strongly considering converting my Bluestar from manual to auto in the future. _________________ Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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kourt Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2013 Posts: 1917 Location: Austin, TX
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Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 8:38 am Post subject: Re: Auto vs 4 sp |
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Zeitgeist 13 wrote: |
The Vanagon auto is generally considered to be more robust than the manuals, and is more DIY friendly for intrepid souls who wish to service their internals. I'm still strongly considering converting my Bluestar from manual to auto in the future. |
^^this response.
The auto is easier to maintain, more forgiving of abuse, more robust, more available for spare parts (millions of cars used the 010/087/090 transmission), cheaper and much easier to rebuild, and easier to drive. Yeah, some of those things are subjective.
I look at it this way: manually shifting gears is work that demands attention. With an automatic, I can choose to manually shift (and often do, when conditions demand it), or opt out that work and just put it in drive. With a manual, you don't have that option; with that logic, I see a manual transmission as giving the driver less control over the driving environment (because of the lack of the automatic option). This analogy easily applies to all sorts of modern machines--guns, watches, phones, cameras, computers, thermostats, clothes washers and other appliances--where partial or total automatic features (and the option to enable or disable them) are extremely valued, and yet folks get real clingy about their manual transmissions that totally lack the automatic option.
My automatic can shift manually or automatically. Manuals cannot. I choose the transmission with more options (and other aforementioned benefits over the manual).
kourt |
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dlb154 Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2006 Posts: 359 Location: Reno, NV
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Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 2:15 pm Post subject: Re: Auto vs 4 sp |
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In time, manual shifting becomes a motor skill; automatic. |
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