Betty White the '68 Squareback (Build Thread)

[tbb]

This is Betty White the '68 Squareback. Purchased from a dealer in Santa Monica, CA in 1967 she's lived in Southern California for all of her life. She's been sitting for the past 10+ years and needs quite a bit of work.

So far, I've replaced all the fuel lines with high-pressure lines, filter and pump have been also been replaced with Airtex2000.

This is my first time working on a car as I've always been a bicycle nut, but am having fun so far! I've been studying my Bentley brown book to get a better understanding of the systems within and things are beginning to click in my brain.

I've come across my first issue, no power seems to be going to any of the 4 fuel injectors. I've cleaned them out while hooked up to a power source and they all function well. Does anyone know why they aren't getting power? Or could anyone point me to a thread with the info I need?

Thank you!

[KTPhil]

Betty White is a legend!

Well, if you are sheltered at home with time to kill, maybe you can work your way through this (all 243 pages!):
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=21015

Best advice is to resist the temptation to throw new parts at the problem. That will be expensive and probably won't fix it.

I'm not sure how you determined there is "no power" to the injectors. The pulse is too short for most meters (on the order of 50 milliseconds), and the problem can be as simple as lack of grounds in the other injector wires.

What manuals you have? The Muir "Idiot" book is good for the basics (though it gets much wrong on later models of the Type 3 FI, it's adequate and a simple start for your early model).

Start by checking out all resistances in your wiring The Idiot book covers this, and then study and learn how to re-crimp connectors with OEM-style terminals. Resistances foul the FI, and between wiring and vacuum leaks, explain 95% of all "FI problems." Not glamorous, but critical!

The Bentley manual is comprehensive and worthwhile for any repairs.

There are also some literature and troubleshooting guides on the Samba:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/elfri...dition.pdf
http://www.vwtype3.org/literature/clymer/service/Clymer.1972.07.pdf
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/fi_ma...acific.pdf
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/fi_se...0Check.pdf

[Bobnotch]

In that list KTPhil made, the Elfrink manual will be the most help, as it even has wiring diagrams in it for the different years D-Jet FI was available for. Between it, and the FI sticky thread, you should be able to get it working. If not, ask here.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120

[old_man]

FYI you're missing a big piece(s) of your cooling air intake.

[QRP]

[tbb]

Turns out the injectors are in fact working and the engine was able to turn over! Sounds a little rough at idle, but smooths out at higher rpms. Below is a link to a video of Betty White running for the first time in a looooong time. Anybody have any thoughts on how the engine sounds?


Link --> https://youtu.be/2dvMU45b4RI

[Mike Fisher]

Clean the crud off your trigger point contacts. You can pull the distributor out without disturbing your timing to remove/clean them by dragging a business card between both sets of contacts.
Blow air through your metal fuel return line. It can get plugged up with disastrous results! BTDT
Buy a water pressure gauge at home depot to set your fuel pressure at 28lbs for an initial setting.
Don't buy new parts until you test & know you need them!
_________________
https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold

Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey

[tbb]

Thanks guys! I cleaned trigger points, and blew air through my return lines. Checked fuel pressure and its a bit over 30 psi. Should I bring it down to 28?

Aaaaaaaand a couple more issues have arisen.

1. One of the injectors is leaking pretty badly. Fuel is pooling up around the electrical connections and dripping at higher rpm. Is it possible to rebuild or salvage?

2. Strange things are happening with the air system. when the pressure sensor hose is connected to the intake manifold, the engine begins to sputter and lose power. Similarly, when the cold start is plugged in the engine will lose power, then return, lose power, then return. If I disconnect both the cold start and hose to intake manifold, it seems to run well. Any thoughts as to why they don't want to play nice?

Thanks again

[Clatter]

Having injectors serviced is very common,
And fortunately done to may cars and trucks besides ours.

They might call it a 'clean and flow test', or 'flow balance' or..?

Big-rig semi truck places do it a lot as part of routine maintenance,
and for good reasons...
A nice fine atomization with even flow makes for a more efficient engine.

One of the top places online for cars is a place called Witch Hunter.
I had mine done at a Peterbuilt place in Salinas.
They did make fun of my small injectors.

I'll put this operation up towards the top of the list.
It's hard to tune a motor if the injectors are clogged up and spitting..
_________________
Bus Motor Build

I have excellent news for the world...
There is no such thing as patina.
It does not exist!

[KTPhil]

Leaking at the connector probably can't be fixed, so look for a replacement. If its leaking at the short hose segment, the hose can be replaced.

The behavior with the cold start valve implies it may be stuck open. You really don't need it. Remove and plug the gas line.

The issue with the hose is more serious... can you explain it again? Have you checked the hose and MPS for leaks?

How is the hose to the AAR, and is that working properly?

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What is an MPS and AAR? And any recommendations to where i can purchase an injector?

[Bobnotch]

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Pulled the part number off the MPS --> "311 906 051 B"

The engine is having a tough time starting when cold without a little help. When I spray a little starter into the manifold and she'll start and idle fine. And once warm she'll start up just fine without any starter fluid. But when the air hose is connected to the MPS, she won't start at all or once started, will quickly lose RPM. Below is a link to a video of attaching and detaching the hose. Anybody know why the engine is acting this way?

Video --> https://youtu.be/wH3AGnPHRd4

[KTPhil]

With the hose disconnected you have a massive vacuum leak in the plenum (IAD). If it runs better this way, then the engine is starved for air.

Try opening up the idle speed adjustment on the IAD (essentially a large vacuum leak in itself!). Loosen the 15mm nut, and unscrew the stud to allow more bypass air until it idles okay with the MPS hose re-attached.

That MPS has been adjusted, based on the wear on the screw slot. It may not be adjusted RIGHT, so at some point when you have eliminated all else, it can be adjusted, but that's for another day.

[tbb]

Opened up the idle speed adjustment but am still having issues keeping the engine idling when connected to the MPS.

To test if my issue is purely a matter of airflow, I plugged up the hose which connects to the MPS. The engine slows down at idle but doesnt react in the same way as when connected to the MPS itself.

Here is a video --> https://youtu.be/whiKCSzg5jw

What does the MPS do with the information it receives? Basically, what commands does the MPS give the ECU when it senses different levels of pressure? I'm thinking the MPS is giving incorrect commands. Is it possible that the MPS is telling the ECU to decrease how much power is going to the injectors which is what is decreasing idle RPM? And what happens when the flathead screw on the MPS is adjusted? Thank you

[KTPhil]

Check the MPS electrically (most manuals give the proper resistances pin by pin) and check that it holds vacuum.

The MPS is the heart of the system. It's circuits determine mixture throughout all driving conditions. If it isn't right, there are no band-aids to make it run right.

If it passes electric and vacuum tests, then it's been mis-adjusted badly. But again, it's the last thing you adjust. if it's wrong, someone probably adjusted it first, and then other fixes left it is the wrong state of adjustment.

Check for ANY AND ALL vacuum leaks, check electrically, and then give it a good tune-up first.

[Bobnotch]

Keep in mind you have the revised early MPS, and there should also be a vac can under the right side (passenger side in the USA) air tubes on the engine, along with an electrical plug. Those parts are for the injection system too, and act like an accelerator pump. It needs good vacuum hose too. It really sounds like your AAR isn't opening when the engine is cold. It's supposed to be open then, and slowly close as the engine warms up.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120

[tbb]

Checked the electrical connections on the MPS today and the outer plugs read about 350 ohms and the inner read about 90. I believe that's good?

Saw the port for the hose was a bit oily so I opened it up the MPS and it was swimming in oil. Is there supposed to be this much oil?

And how do I check if my AAR is closed when the engine is cold?

[KTPhil]

I've never seen one with that much oil. I'd remove all hoses for the IAD (plenum) and make sure the rest aren't full of oil, too.

What manuals do you have?

[Bobnotch]