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Bug53
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Joined: February 22, 2021
Posts: 751
Location: Pawcatuck, CT.
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 Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2022 1:27 am Post subject: T-stat or No T-stat |
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I live in the Northeast. Connecticut to be exact.
I don't drive the care in colder temperatures such as below 40 degrees generally.
I've always been a big proponent of using a thermostat but now with the new engine I'm building it is going to be running hotter than stock due to a higher compression ratio (8.9-9.1) and larger displacement ( 2095) engine.
I I'm looking to gather a poll on whether or not I should fit the louvers and t-stat rod into my new 36HP style doghouse shroud or leave it alone and let the cooling air blow full tilt.
I does have 1-1/2" heater boxes with no fins inside so I'm counting on enough heat to take the chill off on cool evenings.
T-stat or No t-stat and flaps?? |
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 15301
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2022 2:25 am Post subject: Re: T-stat or No T-stat |
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Do you want it to run efficiently and live a long life or not? If it doesn't matter leave it all off. As to a bigger engine running hotter? Not if it's tuned right, in fact it may run cooler. Not working as hard.
I found a huge difference at 70*F in drivability in lights to lights traffic when I added them to my street Buggy. Or I could have run the engine cold and rich to cover the stumbles and farts like the rest of the guys and lived with 15 mpg, risked fuel washed cylinders and fouled plugs...
Up to you.
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karl h
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Location: austria
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FreeBug
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Joined: March 12, 2012
Posts: 4277
Location: deepest, darkest Switzerland
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| Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2022 3:59 am Post subject: Re: T-stat or No T-stat |
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| T-stat |
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Glenn 
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 80682
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2022 5:05 am Post subject: Re: T-stat or No T-stat |
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All the above.
The thermostat helps the engine warm up quicker which reduces wear and improves efficiency.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
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Lingwendil
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Joined: February 25, 2009
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Location: Antioch, California, a block from the hood
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richparker
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Joined: November 24, 2011
Posts: 7833
Location: Durango, CO
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| Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2022 5:59 am Post subject: Re: T-stat or No T-stat |
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Run one. A T-stat was one of my 5 requests on my last build, I left the rest up to the builder. I would have preferred a 1600 dog house housing, but it wasn’t one of my requests. My builder likes the compact 36hp housings in a beetle, he states it leaves more room for the dual carbs. So he chose to modify the 36hp to accept the flaps. Not only do you have to drill the holes for the pivots, but you also have to clearance the interior.
Here’s a pic of the interior clearanced.
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Dan Ruddock
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Joined: October 25, 2012
Posts: 3668
Location: Sarasota, in my adopted state of Florida
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| Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2022 6:04 am Post subject: Re: T-stat or No T-stat |
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I too for your app would say run the stat. For my engine I will not use the stat because it will not clear my exhaust. I live in Florida and I will change pulley size to fit seasons.
Dan |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 80682
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2022 6:14 am Post subject: Re: T-stat or No T-stat |
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| richparker wrote: |
| My builder likes the compact 36hp housings in a beetle, he states it leaves more room for the dual carbs. |
I had not problems using a stock dog house shroud in a Beetle.
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Glenn
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[email protected]
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Joined: May 17, 2003
Posts: 4877
Location: Harmony, PA
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| Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2022 6:24 am Post subject: Re: T-stat or No T-stat |
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Do your own research....
While I’ll agree that an OEM shroud may be more efficient at cooling than an aftermarket 36hp style shroud, and having the cooling flaps in the OEM shroud may direct air in a more efficient manner, I have yet to work on a customer’s vehicle that had a thermostat with a performance engine going on 32 years. I’ve never had a thermostat on a performance engine in a personal vehicle going on 27 years.
Pat Downs once posted on this site he had dyno’d 4500 engines at CB. Not mentioning total built, but those simply ran on a dyno to give the customer hp figures. NONE of the engines on CB’s turn key page use a thermostat. |
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richparker
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Joined: November 24, 2011
Posts: 7833
Location: Durango, CO
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| Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2022 6:32 am Post subject: Re: T-stat or No T-stat |
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| Glenn wrote: |
| richparker wrote: |
| My builder likes the compact 36hp housings in a beetle, he states it leaves more room for the dual carbs. |
I had not problems using a stock dog house shroud in a Beetle.
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I didn’t say they didn’t fit, they just leave more room.
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Lingwendil
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Joined: February 25, 2009
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Location: Antioch, California, a block from the hood
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| Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2022 6:56 am Post subject: Re: T-stat or No T-stat |
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I can almost certainly say that much of that is because the complete flap/stat setups aren't available new and ready to use... I bet if they were available new production and customers were willing to pay that they would be an option. Since the average performance VW guy is more concerned about aesthetics, power, and less about longevity and drivability they are pretty low priority for most vendors.
Nobody building thousands of engines is going to go through the work to source, refurbish, and fit all those setups when the engine will work fine without it for the average guy that either doesn't care or understand what they do.
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kangaboy
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Joined: August 28, 2010
Posts: 1064
Location: St. Louis, Mo
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| Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2022 6:58 am Post subject: Re: T-stat or No T-stat |
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| [email protected] wrote: |
Do your own research....
While I’ll agree that an OEM shroud may be more efficient at cooling than an aftermarket 36hp style shroud, and having the cooling flaps in the OEM shroud may direct air in a more efficient manner, I have yet to work on a customer’s vehicle that had a thermostat with a performance engine going on 32 years. I’ve never had a thermostat on a performance engine in a personal vehicle going on 27 years.
Pat Downs once posted on this site he had dyno’d 4500 engines at CB. Not mentioning total built, but those simply ran on a dyno to give the customer hp figures. NONE of the engines on CB’s turn key page use a thermostat. |
Agreed. OEM Doghouse with fins and no T-stat has worked for all of my motors the last 25 years.
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[email protected]
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Joined: May 17, 2003
Posts: 4877
Location: Harmony, PA
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| Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2022 7:19 am Post subject: Re: T-stat or No T-stat |
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| Lingwendil wrote: |
I can almost certainly say that much of that is because the complete flap/stat setups aren't available new and ready to use... I bet if they were available new production and customers were willing to pay that they would be an option. Since the average performance VW guy is more concerned about aesthetics, power, and less about longevity and drivability they are pretty low priority for most vendors.
Nobody building thousands of engines is going to go through the work to source, refurbish, and fit all those setups when the engine will work fine without it for the average guy that either doesn't care or understand what they do. |
CB uses fan shrouds, and cylinder tins that are 100% essential in cooling the engine.
They are no stranger in creating/bringing to market items NEEDED in, or that will significantly enhance the Aircooled hobby. If the flaps/t-stat were such an import part, they would have created shrouds able to accept them, and bolt in flaps off the shelf long ago. |
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Jason37
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Joined: April 21, 2004
Posts: 1050
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| Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2022 7:36 am Post subject: Re: T-stat or No T-stat |
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| Any other models besides the early 61-63 type 3’s come stock without a thermostat? |
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[email protected]
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 15301
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2022 8:34 am Post subject: Re: T-stat or No T-stat |
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| Lingwendil wrote: |
I can almost certainly say that much of that is because the complete flap/stat setups aren't available new and ready to use... I bet if they were available new production and customers were willing to pay that they would be an option. Since the average performance VW guy is more concerned about aesthetics, power, and less about longevity and drivability they are pretty low priority for most vendors.
Nobody building thousands of engines is going to go through the work to source, refurbish, and fit all those setups when the engine will work fine without it for the average guy that either doesn't care or understand what they do. |
This right here is spot on!
Even Henry Ford saw the advantages of a thermostat and believe me there was nothing on a Model T that was not needed! If you are happy with taking your new engine back in time and technology to pre-Model T days, go for it! Just because hundreds of air cooled engine builders followed the 1/4 mile guys from southern California in the late 60's and deleted them still doesn't make the engines run properly or last as long without one.
Running an engine on a dyno without one proves absolutely NOTHING! Zero - zip!
Like someone already pointed out, go buy a new vehicle, remove the thermostat and then try and get warranty on that engine. You will be laughed at right out the dealership door and your story will go into thier collection of the most stupid things their customers have ever done! I will bet the farm on that one!
Have you ever heard the saying "Just because everyone is doing it doesn't make it right." Ya that's about morals but it applies here too.
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Last edited by oprn on Fri Apr 22, 2022 8:48 am; edited 1 time in total |
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 15301
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2022 8:43 am Post subject: Re: T-stat or No T-stat |
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There you go! You were waiting for that one!
You are welcome! 
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 80682
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2022 9:04 am Post subject: Re: T-stat or No T-stat |
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| richparker wrote: |
| Glenn wrote: |
| richparker wrote: |
| My builder likes the compact 36hp housings in a beetle, he states it leaves more room for the dual carbs. |
I had not problems using a stock dog house shroud in a Beetle.
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I didn’t say they didn’t fit, they just leave more room. |
For what?
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare
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mcmscott
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Location: sanger ca
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| Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2022 9:10 am Post subject: Re: T-stat or No T-stat |
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| Jason37 wrote: |
| Any other models besides the early 61-63 type 3’s come stock without a thermostat? |
The late mexican aircooled beetles did not use a t-stat
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