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tasb
The Distributor Distributor
Joined: April 27, 2002
Posts: 6788
Location: Pentwater, Michigan
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 Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2025 9:12 am Post subject: Re: Stock factory engine 1965 |
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The spark plug ends of the wires can be removed and a correct vintage end can be installed. There might be a closer color match available if you make your own cables. Trick might be finding cable with a compatible inner core.
There are vendors that have the correct brass wire connectors. There are threads buried on the site about them and the tool that secures them to the wire. You can also remove the colored insulators from the tin connectors.
Ton’s Performance is a vendor of vintage ignition and electrical that is not VW specific. I’ve bought from them before and they are a good resource.
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1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 26014
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2025 11:03 am Post subject: Re: Stock factory engine 1965 |
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| matthew henricks wrote: |
Thank you Eric & Barb, tasb & Everett.
I have oogled that black bug since it was discovered as the bases for my 64 bug project. Did not realize the similarities.
I have my hit list now.
A few follow-up questions.
1. What options are out there today for blue spark plug wires with the correct ends and correct color. Most are darker blue with the more modern spark plug end.
2. What would be a "OEM style electrical connector" other than not having the insulation?
3. Clarification on the copper comment. Your saying the vacuum and fuel hard lines are steel plaited with copper? Are you suggesting that what the higher end shops sell is pure copper? Why can't you use copper?
Thank you. |
1. Have yet to find a good color match without huge logos on of the 8mm copper core spark plug wire in bulk reel form.
2. Best to read up in this thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=338938
Also: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
3. Correct, steel plated with copper = stock. All the new metal lines are either steel or stainless steel, without any copper plating. Copper works hardens all to easy and so cracks all too soon. Cracks as in like an old fashioned steel coat hanger, that one day it just snaps when you hang a coat on it for the umpteen millionth time. Thankfully the fuel line does not have not have a concentrated stress point like a coat hanger does, because of this have yet to see or hear of a stock steel fuel line cracking since I got into the VWs in the late 1970s and over the 400,000 miles of driving VWs between us.
On the other hand we met a young lady decades ago who we took under our wing so to speak, and Barb felt like she was like a sister. She had out of the blue bought a 1959 double door panel bus, and had no idea how to work on it or what to look mechanically for that could cause her problems. She found me by calling the now legendary Wolfsburg Warehouse in Seattle where I volunteered one day a week. Ended up teaching her (in trade for work about our place) how to tune the engine, do an oil change, grease up the front suspension, change the gear oil (which the old stuff came out looking like chocolate milk in look and thickness), and much much more. The engine itself was a marvel of missing tin, and even a big hole in the front of the fan shroud for an external oil cooler system, but was running a stock oil cooler. DPO was the model of a proverbial three left handed mental midget. Anyway, one of her visits I noticed that the metal fuel line was sitting on the left side intake manifold heat riser, not good. So reached in and tried to slightly bend the line to keep it off a hot pipe and prevent rub thru that line. Instead the line broke in two like a piece of glass would. Turned out to be a pure copper line! I crawled under the bus to plug off the fuel line at the tank. Barb got out a fire extinguisher, I got soaked in fuel, fun times!! Next time she visited, a fuel tap (as should be done to any bus IOHO) was installed so the fuel could be shut off at the driver seat.....
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Last edited by Eric&Barb on Fri Jun 27, 2025 3:53 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Lind
Samba Member
Joined: November 06, 2000
Posts: 10224
Location: idaho
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2025 11:47 am Post subject: Re: Stock factory engine 1965 |
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| matthew henricks wrote: |
| 3. Clarification on the copper comment. Your saying the vacuum and fuel hard lines are steel plaited with copper? Are you suggesting that what the higher end shops sell is pure copper? Why can't you use copper? |
Straight copper might get brittle and break with excessive flexing, where steel can probably deal with more of that. Steel with copper plating is what the factory did, and personally I try to keep things as close to factory as possible without a good reason to do it differently, and it is cheaper to make it a certain way isn't a good reason in my book. All that said, I get copper plated steel fuel lines from my supplier, They make the early style which thread in to the fuel pump. So the stock is available, not prohibitively expensive, so that is what I use when I can't find a good original.
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matthew henricks
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Joined: January 02, 2002
Posts: 1361
Location: So. Cal
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EverettB 
Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000
Posts: 71578
Location: Phoenix 602
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2025 10:02 am Post subject: Re: Stock factory engine 1965 |
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1. If you put a governor on a normal intake manifold, I think the air cleaner elbow on top of the carb would hit the frame cross piece on the ceiling of the engine compartment
2. 36hp engine brace. 36hp engines had a brace for whatever reason so you need a shorter one if it had a shorter manifold for the governor.
3. Carb ID tag - Every carb. had it? I think they get lost over time with carb rebuilds.
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BulliBill
Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2004
Posts: 4777
Location: St Charles, MO
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2025 11:27 am Post subject: Re: Stock factory engine 1965 |
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Hi Matthew and all,
The single port manifold (for a Transporter, with a speed/limiter/governor between the carb and shorter manifold) currently on my 1967 Campmobile is VW part number 211 129 701F. When using a speed limiter on a Bus, you must use the shorter manifold whose part number starts with 211, NOT 113! A "G" version is almost the same as an "F" version but features a little more factory grinding of the heat jacket around the manifold near the generator is slightly different. An "F" manifold wasn't even listed anymore in my '67 VW Dealership Parts manual, being superceded by newer "G" manifold. I suspect that either an "F" or a "G" version of the "211" manifold would be correct on the '65 Transporter engine.
Bill Bowman
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matthew henricks
Samba Member
Joined: January 02, 2002
Posts: 1361
Location: So. Cal
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2025 12:57 pm Post subject: Re: Stock factory engine 1965 |
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Guess i could use another round of scrutiny.
Items i know are wrong and in the works:
- Short 12V coil & 12V sticker.
- .006" valve gap foil decal.
- Correct washers for some of the tin screws.
- Correct dark end pre-heat tube.
- Smooth fan belt.
Things i want to do but have no plan.
- Air cleaner label. IMO this is silk screened and not a sticker
- Air flap system.
- F or G 211 SP manifold with good risers.
- Better fresh air tube clamps. Too shinny.
- fuel hose clamps. Pretty sure VW had non until 66. What to do for safety...
- Correct air cleaner screw
Things i am going to live with
- Battery. Not the right group size
- Battery tender cable to battery
What else? Please be critical.
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 26014
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2025 3:46 pm Post subject: Re: Stock factory engine 1965 |
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| matthew henricks wrote: |
Things i want to do but have no plan.[list]
- Air cleaner label. IMO this is silk screened and not a sticker
- Air flap system.
- F or G 211 SP manifold with good risers.
- Better fresh air tube clamps. Too shinny.
- fuel hose clamps. Pretty sure VW had non until 66. What to do for safety...
- Correct air cleaner screw
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You could try soaking the fresh air hose clamps in vinegar to lessen the shine (if that is what you mean instead of shinny) over nite. Would test on one clamp first to see if desired results and how long to soak. Old sheet metal trick to paint galvanized steel so it will have enough roughness to allow primer to grab into it and not just peel off later.
Interesting word "shinny", knew the one for climbing a pole, but not the others:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/shinny
and
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/shinny
Personally would just run the hose clamps on the pressure section. Better a bit off absolute correct than a VW BBQ.
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Kommercial
Samba Moderator
Joined: December 28, 2000
Posts: 1189
Location: San Tan Valley, Arizona
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2025 5:38 pm Post subject: Re: Stock factory engine 1965 |
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Time to ditch the nylock nuts on your engine case/fuel pump/generator stand.
Funny that the generator stand is missing a nut in the owners manual pic shown in this thread. |
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tasb
The Distributor Distributor
Joined: April 27, 2002
Posts: 6788
Location: Pentwater, Michigan
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2025 5:36 pm Post subject: Re: Stock factory engine 1965 |
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/aug64deluxebus/page70.jpg
This appears to be a 40hp engine based on the throttle spring being located on the cable rather than an arm on the carburetor. The distributor would match to a 28 PICT Solex.
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Roads Scholar
1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018
1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc
1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse
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BarryL
Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004
Posts: 15253
Location: Casa de Oro, California
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2025 6:30 pm Post subject: Re: Stock factory engine 1965 |
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| But it has 1500 style intake. |
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70bus
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Joined: July 15, 2004
Posts: 1424
Location: P.O.
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2025 10:22 pm Post subject: Re: Stock factory engine 1965 |
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I see some people put the earlier spring setup on to reduce throttle bushing wear, and sometimes to help a twitchy Accel cable behave. So if total stock is desired on a 1500 engine, that setup thom mentioned needs to go. If a 40hp, the cleaner goes. Plus those nylocs. ;)
I’ve got a 1679cc that looks completely stock (except for the orange hoses from fan shroud) from 3 feet. Tin work at apron is what gives it away. So do you want factory stock for 65, stock plus fudges for drivability like the cable spring, or stock from 3’? Your bus looks nice enough to go dead stock with the best parts you can find; you are almost there.
As for pic, didn’t VW sometimes recycle earlier photos in these owners manuals?
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70 Neunsitzer
65 Pritschenwagen
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Raul the 65 singlecab
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BarryL
Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004
Posts: 15253
Location: Casa de Oro, California
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| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2025 6:13 pm Post subject: Re: Stock factory engine 1965 |
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| I didn't go to the parts list dates thing but I personally never saw the hook spring on the carb before 1967. |
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tasb
The Distributor Distributor
Joined: April 27, 2002
Posts: 6788
Location: Pentwater, Michigan
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| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2025 7:13 pm Post subject: Re: Stock factory engine 1965 |
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The M620/21 Buses came with 12v and 1500 engines, correct? Not sure if they used a 30 PICT or 28 PICT carburetor. The distributor would have matched the carburetor.
Prevailing opinions state that owners manual pictures are notoriously unreliable.
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Roads Scholar
1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018
1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc
1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse
Member# 2059
Last edited by tasb on Sun Jul 27, 2025 4:24 am; edited 1 time in total |
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EverettB
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Joined: April 11, 2000
Posts: 71578
Location: Phoenix 602
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70bus
Samba Member
Joined: July 15, 2004
Posts: 1424
Location: P.O.
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| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2025 10:20 pm Post subject: Re: Stock factory engine 1965 |
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So for 66 buses, not 65 (but you could have a 66 MY that was made those last few days of 65 w/ these changes).
So according to this a 65 should have a 28pict-1 with no spring, and a spring at the fan shroud, correct?
Edit
- Without Guesswork states buses should have a 1500 standard from Aug 64 or perhaps Jan 63?
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Craig K
70 Neunsitzer
65 Pritschenwagen
"If Von Dutch was alive, he'd walk in there with a pistol and shoot these people." - Robert Williams
Raul the 65 singlecab
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EverettB
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oakman
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Joined: February 05, 2014
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Location: Edge of the Desert, Ca
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| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2025 4:16 pm Post subject: Re: Stock factory engine 1965 |
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Just to confirm, I have a very original 1965 (August 64') bus with it's confirmed original 1500cc engine and it has the spring on the cable only.
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Bobs67vwagen
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Joined: March 27, 2005
Posts: 423
Location: Eastern north carolina
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| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2025 5:03 pm Post subject: Re: Stock factory engine 1965 |
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| I had a 64 standard bus in the 1970s that was imported from Germany. It had the early 1500(no cam bearings) but I do not recall which carb it had. |
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BarryL
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Joined: November 01, 2004
Posts: 15253
Location: Casa de Oro, California
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| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2025 6:18 pm Post subject: Re: Stock factory engine 1965 |
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| oakman wrote: |
| Just to confirm, I have a very original 1965 (August 64') bus with it's confirmed original 1500cc engine and it has the spring on the cable only. |
Yes you have the thing that is supposed to be there. You also have the correct intake manifold. |
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