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r.e.wing_fc3s
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Joined: April 16, 2010
Posts: 603
Location: Vanagon Capitol USA: Bellingham, WA
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 Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2025 12:40 am Post subject: What Vanagons came with reinforced main longitudinal frame rail? |
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Some vanagon frame rails -the main longitudinal member running the length of the middle of the van with oval shaped holes - had additional metal inside the frame - easy to see from the bottom when looking up at the oval holes. I feel like this was a somewhat random addition. I thought orignally that this was only used on westies from the late 80's on. Then i saw an 89 tintop syncro with the reinforcement but not a 91 syncro tintop - maybe they just ran out?
My syncros frame has become flexy after much time on three and two wheels. It is now sometimes very difficult to engage low gear or reverse only when the van body is diagonally tweaked while offroading. Otherwise it shifts perfectly. Wondering if anyone else has experinced this or if those with the reinforced frame rails notice less flex.
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dobryan 
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crazyvwvanman
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Joined: January 28, 2008
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Location: Orbiting San Diego
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| Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2025 9:58 am Post subject: Re: What Vanagons came with reinforced main longitudinal frame rail? |
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He is talking about the 2 main hollow frame rails that run front to back under the van.
They have elongated oval holes in them that you can look and feel inside of.
On late model Syncros you can easily see an inner metal rib inside the 2 frame rails but earlier vans don't have them.
Don't know exactly when they were added.
Mark |
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r.e.wing_fc3s
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Joined: April 16, 2010
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Location: Vanagon Capitol USA: Bellingham, WA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2025 3:05 pm Post subject: Re: What Vanagons came with reinforced main longitudinal frame rail? |
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Yep. seems like some 2wd westys had them also. I have a 1989 syncro 16 joker highroof in the shop now and would certinaly think that vehicle would have them but it doesnt.
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MsTaboo
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Joined: June 02, 2006
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Location: East Kootenay, British Columbia
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| Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2025 3:14 pm Post subject: Re: What Vanagons came with reinforced main longitudinal frame rail? |
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I thought all Syncros had the reinforcement? My '89 16" Syncro certainly had them.
Is this Syncro original or a 2wd conversion?
As for the shifting it sounds more like it needs adjustment or maintenance.
Also, out curiosity, does the body show any tell-tale signs of body flex by the rear wheel wells?
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=526392&highlight=syncro+body
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crazyvwvanman
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Joined: January 28, 2008
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Location: Orbiting San Diego
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| Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2025 3:30 pm Post subject: Re: What Vanagons came with reinforced main longitudinal frame rail? |
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I've had a lot of early Syncros, none had it.
Had a 90 Syncro, that did have it.
I'd love a get a close look at the VIN# of any 2wd Vanagon that has it.
I wonder if it would have a G in the 11th digit?
Mark |
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WiboBusMan
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Joined: September 26, 2009
Posts: 172
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2025 6:12 pm Post subject: Re: What Vanagons came with reinforced main longitudinal frame rail? |
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Pics here:
https://hanswibo.asuscomm.com/s/LxCBR3HFZyNGcLb
Top pic show that you see the floor panel through the oval hole.
Looking through the oval hole on the lower pic shows that the rail is capped on top of the rail.
W
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tdivan82
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Joined: September 17, 2023
Posts: 349
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2025 7:05 pm Post subject: Re: What Vanagons came with reinforced main longitudinal frame rail? |
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| r.e.wing_fc3s wrote: |
| My syncros frame has become flexy after much time on three and two wheels. |
I don't have knowledge of the specific frame reinforcements in question, but I do know that metal fatigue on vehicles is a thing, especially those that see extreme use cases e.g. racing or off-roading. Take a paperclip and start bending it back and forth in your fingers. After a handful of times, the metal simply cracks and breaks. Vehicles are no different. It is interesting to see the side-by-side photos of the "reinforced" vs. "non-reinforced" frame rails.
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Last edited by tdivan82 on Sat Aug 16, 2025 7:14 am; edited 1 time in total |
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dobryan
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r.e.wing_fc3s
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Joined: April 16, 2010
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Location: Vanagon Capitol USA: Bellingham, WA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2025 6:15 pm Post subject: Re: What Vanagons came with reinforced main longitudinal frame rail? |
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@wibobusman yaa thats good info. ill try and find pics of the 2wd with the capped rails and or a vin number
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ALIKA T3
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Joined: July 30, 2009
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Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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| Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2025 12:27 am Post subject: Re: What Vanagons came with reinforced main longitudinal frame rail? |
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I posted about this a couple years ago, it came back only the last years had it, like 1990/1991 with a few 1991/1992 not having it, prolly slapped together with parts laying around, a classic move from VW to not waste anything.
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Sodo
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Location: Western WA
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| Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2025 9:20 am Post subject: Re: What Vanagons came with reinforced main longitudinal frame rail? |
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Pic of Syncro frames showing a '90 Syncro Westy with the logitudinal frame reinforcement.
1987 is a tintop Syncro.
I don't see how this would increase stiffness to "body twist".
Maybe a little....
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jlrftype7
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Location: Chicago
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| Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2025 10:25 am Post subject: Re: What Vanagons came with reinforced main longitudinal frame rail? |
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| tdivan82 wrote: |
| r.e.wing_fc3s wrote: |
| My syncros frame has become flexy after much time on three and two wheels. |
I don't have knowledge of the specific frame reinforcements in question, but I do know that metal fatigue on vehicles is a thing, especially those that see extreme use cases e.g. racing or off-roading. Take a paperclip and start bending it back and forth in your fingers. After a handful of times, the metal simply cracks and breaks. Vehicles are no different. It is interesting to see the side-by-side photos of the "reinforced" vs. "non-reinforced" frame rails. |
Range Rover Classics, the body style from 1970 to basically 1995, had a 'tell' of Off-roading usage after you'd been on the trails for a good long while.
The B pillar of the body would develop a tiny crack about 3/4s of the way up the Pillar, visible on the outside.
I wondered about this as I'd heard it from owners and other LR Techs while we owned our '94 RR Short Wheel Base.
Then we got it....   , after enough off-roading. Drivers side only.
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RoryGirl
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Location: WestWorld Nanaimo BC
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| Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2025 11:59 am Post subject: Re: What Vanagons came with reinforced main longitudinal frame rail? |
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My 91 twin slider has the "flared" oval holes but no reinforcements.
Edit - 993 posts
Link
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Microbusdeluxe
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Joined: July 26, 2003
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Location: Bellingham, WA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2025 3:18 pm Post subject: Re: What Vanagons came with reinforced main longitudinal frame rail? |
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I'll weigh in here especially as my syncro is one of those referenced in this discussion. I have an '89 factory 16" syncro hightop Joker. I crawled under it today and here's what I saw.
The frame rails have the lip around the oval holes, but they definitely do not have the internal frame. I could shove my fingers 3-4" up into the frame rail and touch the underside of the floor. I had the photos from the article linked to the post by WiboBusMan with me as I examined it. Now I know my rig is an original factory 16 Westy. It has all of the other bells and whistles, reinforcement at the top of the B pillar on the passenger's side, plates welded & covering the webs in the interior, proper M plate codes, etc.
My guess is that Alika T3 has the correct take on it, that it was added in the 1990 production run, possibly to address the side panel crease. Anywho here's another piece of info for you.[/b]
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MsTaboo
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Location: East Kootenay, British Columbia
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| Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2025 11:24 am Post subject: Re: What Vanagons came with reinforced main longitudinal frame rail? |
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| Microbusdeluxe wrote: |
I'll weigh in here especially as my syncro is one of those referenced in this discussion. I have an '89 factory 16" syncro hightop Joker. I crawled under it today and here's what I saw.
The frame rails have the lip around the oval holes, but they definitely do not have the internal frame. I could shove my fingers 3-4" up into the frame rail and touch the underside of the floor. I had the photos from the article linked to the post by WiboBusMan with me as I examined it. Now I know my rig is an original factory 16 Westy. It has all of the other bells and whistles, reinforcement at the top of the B pillar on the passenger's side, plates welded & covering the webs in the interior, proper M plate codes, etc.
My guess is that Alika T3 has the correct take on it, that it was added in the 1990 production run, possibly to address the side panel crease. Anywho here's another piece of info for you.[/b] |
Bah! I would have sworn that the Joker had the added reinforcement. Oh well, old decrepit brain fart. 
On it being an original factory 16" - you should have received the "Birth Certificate" I provided when I sold it to Richard. Just FYI here it is:
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Currently:
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The information age has morphed into the age of disinformation and willful ignorance. Agnotology!
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