Is it worth trying to build my type 4?

[slowfiveo]

Hey guys, I'm a stray from the Vanagon forum. You can't find a lot of type 4 knowledge on that side of theSamba.

I bought an 82 aircooled Vanagon Westy earlier this year, I'm an aircooled guy at heart, so I went this route rather than going with a watercooled example, plus the price was sooo right. The engine is loosing oil and making some concerning noises, etc. It runs OK, but I knew going in that the engine had a lot of miles on it and had seen plenty of adventures. I was lucky enough for it to drive me home from Denver to Kentucky after purchasing it. The PO had the cooling tins wired open and installed an external cooler, so I can only assume that it was overcooling most of it's life.

So, with all that being said. I'm in need of at the very least pulling my engine and doing a refresh, but I'd like more power. There's some big bore kits out there, different cams, etc. My question is....is it conceivable to add more power to this engine without sacrificing what reliability it could have? Or should I make a deal with the devil and start piecing together cooling bits for a subaru swap? At the end of the day, I know nothing about the watercooled engines, but I feel like I can figure out the aircooled engine on the side of the road. That's not to say I'm not willing to learn though.

I plan on daily driving it most days, with an occasional road trip with my family. Hoping to retain my fuel injection, but not against losing it if it makes sense. Talk me out of the swap.

[timvw7476]

advice is to measure each cylinder p.s.i. warm . 105-110+ drive it till it pukes, but put the proper air flaps thermostat on it.
If this thing made it to Kentucky then it is intact.
As far as Subaru just go buy one. I did. Not to swap. Just in case snow arrives.
I would consider re-ringing before pulling it out as well.
A Vanagon with a Type IV will never be real fast & even if it was it would be a little dangerous.
Also do the pushrod tubes O-rings & check the oil pressure switch, those love to seep oil after several years.

[richparker]

If you were gonna do a Subie swap, you should have bought a water cooled one.
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’71 Westy build
Adventure thread
’65 Deluxe Build
’71 Double Cab

[my59]

I'd be doing some investigation before I drop the engine-
Valve adjustment
Compression test cold
Compression test warm
Oil pressure
Vacuum leak check.
Fuel pressure check
Maybe a cylinder leak down test.

You will want the info before you take things apart, as it will help you know where you mY need to focus on.
The FI is stupid dependable if it has not been hacked. Fi and vacuum leaks dont get along.
Hydro lifters like clean oil to stay pumped up.
You can pull the valve train, remove the pushrods and tubes (keep em in order so they go back where they came from) and look at the cam lobes to see the wear pattern and how worn the cam lobes are.
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my59: Well son, my grandfather died before I got to drive it, so does that answer your question?
our79: sunroof bus w/camper interior and 2.0 FI
Other:'12 Jetta, '77 Benz 300D, and a 74 MG Midget.

[vwmaniaman]

I had an 83 with the air cooled that was a 7 passenger and drove it to Arizona and Back in the winter. It also was an automatic with AC and auxillary heater. I liked that air cooled motor and it did everything I wanted. Speedy it is not and 70 mph all day was not a problem. Keeping us warm was the problem as we hit an ice storm near Amarillo and they closed the interstate made us all go to a motel. Frozen doors and locks and wipers and even the gas cap hole froze over.
The motor or transmission was reliable.
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Working on a VW is like fun with a friend!
65 Beetle
75 Westy "Pumpkin Van"
86 Westy "Brown Betty"
87 Cabrio

[Clatter]

I'm a big proponent of taking these apart and cleaning/inspecting everything.

Too much time to be wasted chasing your tail with things that might have been done wrong by past owners.

If it doesn't have a bunch of problems then you aren't in for a lot of parts cost,
if it does, you'll want to know before being stuck on the side of the road.
It's all about problems.
Get rid of the problems and you'll find happiness.

Don't let a tired old engine give you an idea how these things run.
In good shape a stock engine hums along just fine.
Fast enough for an old van...

Build in my sig might help.

If you're not into jumping in with both feet don't bother.
1982 was too long ago to get away with patching things up anymore.
It's already been done too many times.
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Bus Motor Build

I have excellent news for the world...
There is no such thing as patina.
It does not exist!

[SGKent]

daily driver. 45 year old car with scarce and expensive type four parts. Hmmmmn, what can possibly go wrong there. Worse, as a daily driver your insurance company will only insure you to about a quarter of what it cost you to restore your vanagon. They will call all the work and parts, deferred maintenance that the other owner did not keep up.

If you study threads from some of the folks here like Steve (Clatter) and see what he puts into an engine build, including the time, you may want to rethink this, because it is likely it will be down for months while you are sourcing parts and machine shops.

Air cooled Vanagon owners ofter come here for help with their engines because of little type 4 air cooled support in the Vanagon forum. Welcome.
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George Carlin:
"Most people don't know what they're doing, and a lot of them are really good at it."

Skills@EuroCarsPlus:
"never time to do it right but always time to do it twice"

[lil-jinx]

the way i see it ,if you have a air cooled driven bus ,you have a hobby,if you up grade to a modern engine,(done right) you have transportation.
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620186
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=668799
1974 Bay Westfalia. she likes to be called Ethel.
1968 Dune Buggy sold dec 2024

1974 parts bus
A smart man learns from his mistakes,a very smart man learns from other's mistakes.

[Wildthings]

If the compression numbers are decent then spend some time looking over the crankcase ventilation system as PCV system that doesn't vent properly can cause an engine to use massive amounts of oil. The original style PCV valve is not available but there are work arounds than can be found here on The Samba.

There are lots of places these engines can leak oil several of which can be fixed with the engine installed in the rig.

For power, a bit more aggressive cam will help a lot even with stock heads. Read up on the Camper Special from Len Hoffman.

[SGKent]

also, the next question will be who does a good job rebuilding type IV engines. About 20 people here will standup and hold their hands up. They can detail all the work they put into getting their engine running excellent. Then the next question is how many of those 20 will do it for someone else. Then there will be crickets. There is too much time and research that goes into each one of these engines now. Bearing quality can be crappy. Getting someone to rebuild a set of heads for a transporter is non-existent. In fact the last person to say they found someone had to return the heads for a refund they were so badly done. New aftermarket heads are available but pricey when set up with quality parts. It is the lack of parts that makes it hard. One cannot just order parts on a Tuesday, get 100% quality parts on Thursday, and build it over the weekend. Tin may be missing from prior builds. Tin may be cracked etc.,, Exhaust systems may be in such bad shape that it needs replacing. Someone may spend 75 hours of their time trying to find a specific part - how do you bill someone for that time?
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George Carlin:
"Most people don't know what they're doing, and a lot of them are really good at it."

Skills@EuroCarsPlus:
"never time to do it right but always time to do it twice"

[Tbob]

I bought my last parts vanagon in Elizabethtown! Small world. Not a lot of vanagons in your neck of the woods. One less after I bought the one I did!
The air cooled type 4 engine is barely adequate in areas with mountains and serious hills, but an area like yours it can work. There are some people who have done work on high performance type 4s, notably Jake Raby, who sold most of his developments to LN engineering, which I think is somewhere in Illinois. Also, European Motor Works in the LA area did high perf Type 4 stuff.
But the problem comes to just the cost of getting more performance. Theres not a lot of choices, and that means economies of scale don't work in your favor. Also, parts quality for the aftermarket stuff can be awful, and without good knowledge of what you are dealing with, it can cost a lot for very little. Thats why so many people go with swaps, carefully done you can get a lot more performance for less. Subaru, 2.0 ABA VW, among others. Theres lots of info on thesamba, here. Check the FAQS, under engine swaps.
But if you want to continue with your type 4, get Tom Wilsons "How to rebuild your VW engine" book, and look up Clatter's thread here on thesamba.com about rebuilding a Type 4 engine using used, but serviceable, parts. Both of those sources should give you some more info on your quest.
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1969 Deluxe, owned since 1973
1973 Westfalia, owned since 1983
1980 Westfalia, watercooled conversion
1985 Westfalia, stock!
1986 Westfakia, Audi I-4 conversion
A couple of trucks and a couple of Jeeps

[skills@eurocarsplus]

what's your end game?

A T4 was barely adequate for a bus, in a Vanagon, it's a joke at best.

If you plan on really REALLY using this just go Subaru. Everything is there to add the radiator and you don't even need to cut the aircooled nose to have it work (unless you add A/C)

There is no chance in hell I would build a T4 for a Vanagon and expect it to live for very long.

and for the same or less money you can have a Subaru in there
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