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Bugman Jeff
Samba Member
Joined: May 20, 2004
Posts: 636
Location: Evansville, WI
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 Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 2:37 pm Post subject: 101 HP 1500 SP with STOCK internals!!! |
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With a SINGLE carb no less. Thats right, 101 HP without splitting the case. Whats more, it was done in 1969! The November 1969 Hot Rod Magazine features an article on it. Here's a rundown of the specs:
Stock unopened 1500 SP
4-1 header
Single center carb manifold
Zenith 32 NDIX carb
Power pully
'59-'61 Bus distributer
Ported heads w/ 1.4 rockers
Furthermore, it made 79.1 HP with STOCK SP heads. So much for single ports are junk and single carbs don't work... Who were the perpetrators of this build for Hot Rod for Hot Rod? None other than Dean and Ken Lowrey, and Gene Berg. Vintage speed indeed.
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sbnova
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Location: Lakeland,FL
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Bugman Jeff
Samba Member
Joined: May 20, 2004
Posts: 636
Location: Evansville, WI
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| Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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If you right click and save as, you can zoom in with Windows Picture Viewer.
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Restorer of Porsche Speedster 80486 |
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buggpower
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Joined: July 25, 2006
Posts: 928
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Towel Rail
Horizontally Opposed
Joined: April 15, 2005
Posts: 4622
Location: SE CR IA US NA PE
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| Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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The ideas (bigger carb, extractor exhaust, 1.4 rockers, porting the heads) aren't anything new, and can be done with any engine, but that's a cool article nonetheless. 
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1974 Thing -- under the knife
1967 Beetle -- spring/summer/fall driver
1996 Subaru OBW (EJ22, 5-speed, AWD) -- winter car, 3-seasons "don't feel like biking today" car
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millerje78
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Joined: October 16, 2005
Posts: 2445
Location: Holmes County, Ohio
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| Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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must have been a seriously talented head porter on staff to make numbers like that! that is very cool.
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vwdmc16
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Joined: January 12, 2006
Posts: 1734
Location: sacramento, CA
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| Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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i see peak power is at 5.5K, just how many times can you run up there and back before the crank says no? i didnt think the stock cam would build any more power above 4400.
this would a great "Myth" to bust. not that im saying they were lying but could it be done today, i wonder what the compression was, and if todays pump gas would cope with it.
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clearsurf2001
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Joined: February 26, 2004
Posts: 1671
Location: Dave-AKA-fortyeye-Oceanside, Ca
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| Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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9.2-1, (Glenn will love this) 010 dizzy @ 33deg total advance, and the best part ... $337 total. Amazing!!
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I think Glenn has an EMPI crank in his engine. |
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Randy in Maine
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Joined: August 03, 2003
Posts: 34890
Location: The Beach
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| Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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That was of course measured as "SAE gross horsepower" was back then using the SAE standard of J245 and J1995.
Doesn't really mean much. |
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Towel Rail
Horizontally Opposed
Joined: April 15, 2005
Posts: 4622
Location: SE CR IA US NA PE
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| Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Randy in Maine wrote: |
That was of course measured as "SAE gross horsepower" was back then using the SAE standard of J245 and J1995.
Doesn't really mean much. |
I was about to post that, but I feel like I'm beating a dead horse sometimes! 
That, and the horsepower at the wheels will of course be lower...
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1974 Thing -- under the knife
1967 Beetle -- spring/summer/fall driver
1996 Subaru OBW (EJ22, 5-speed, AWD) -- winter car, 3-seasons "don't feel like biking today" car
049 > 070 > 053 > 009 |
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vwdmc16
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Location: sacramento, CA
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Towel Rail
Horizontally Opposed
Joined: April 15, 2005
Posts: 4622
Location: SE CR IA US NA PE
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| Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:29 am Post subject: |
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It's hard to say. There isn't some kind of ratio between the two, but it would be less. FWIW, the 1600 DP was 60 HP SAE gross, 48 HP SAE net.
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1974 Thing -- under the knife
1967 Beetle -- spring/summer/fall driver
1996 Subaru OBW (EJ22, 5-speed, AWD) -- winter car, 3-seasons "don't feel like biking today" car
049 > 070 > 053 > 009 |
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krusher
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Joined: September 24, 2002
Posts: 7661
Location: europe
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| Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:36 am Post subject: |
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hmmm, just put a single zenith/intake, header and 1.4's on a 1500 and you get just short of 80hp, i dont think so, good bit of number fudging going on there.
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Bruce
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Joined: May 16, 2003
Posts: 17639
Location: Left coast, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 2:20 am Post subject: |
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| vwdmc16 wrote: |
| , i wonder what the compression was, and if todays pump gas would cope with it. |
9.2:1. You are right, today's pump gas will not support that CR with a stock cam. No matter what rockers it has. |
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67jason
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Joined: August 28, 2005
Posts: 4741
Location: behind my back feet - Pittsburg CA
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| Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 2:44 am Post subject: |
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| krusher wrote: |
hmmm, just put a single zenith/intake, header and 1.4's on a 1500 and you get just short of 80hp, i dont think so, good bit of number fudging going on there.
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yeah i agree the numbers are skewed.
i built a mild 1600, fully balanced, ported and polished heads, dual kads, stock rockers, header, mild cam etc...and it only came out to 75HP 85ftlbs at the flywheel.
and regarding the engine in the article, it was revved to 5500 to achieve max HP, if thats the case it will not last very long. a stock non CW crank will not stand up very well to anything much higher then about 4800 or so.
the vw guys referenced in the article were pioneers in the early VW scene and applied many innovative ideas to increase the performance of the humble aircooled engine, but i think the editors of the mag possibly took some very liberal licenses when it came to the numbers.
even today, one can put all the traditional bolt on goodies on an other wise stock 1600 DP engine, things like 1.25, dual kads or ICTs or whatever, header etc and might get 60-70 HP or so out of thier engines. of course i do understand the differences in measuring HP numbers from back then vs today, but even by todays standards that claim of 101 hp would be around 75-80, not impossible on a 1600cc engine, just not very likely on one that has had nothing done to the internals of the crank case.
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Jake Raby
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Joined: August 23, 2003
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Location: Aircooled Heaven USA
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| Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 6:12 am Post subject: |
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How about 181HP from a 1500??
I did it last week!
It's all in the combo of intake, exhaust and etc-
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Jake Raby
Raby Engine Development
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"I've never given anyone Hell, I just told them the truth and they thought it was Hell" |
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67jason
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Location: behind my back feet - Pittsburg CA
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| Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 6:20 am Post subject: |
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| Jake Raby wrote: |
How about 181HP from a 1500??
I did it last week!
It's all in the combo of intake, exhaust and etc- |
impressive. was that with bone stock from the factory case internals? stock cam, non CW crank?
in your experience, how feesible is it to get 80+ HP out of a 1500 using the stock cam and non CW crank? and would it be a good engine for daily driving or would the heads melt due to insanly high CR?
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Jake Raby
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Joined: August 23, 2003
Posts: 7433
Location: Aircooled Heaven USA
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| Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 6:56 am Post subject: |
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No, it was a full race engine- 1493cc.
Yes, I feel that a 1500 with just a cam change could make 80 HP... 9.3:1 should get it there and some head work would help..
BTW- The stopck ratings are a joke- they are Din HP as well, not SAE
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Jake Raby
Raby Engine Development
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vwairheads
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Joined: March 26, 2007
Posts: 675
Location: chula vista
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| Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 7:23 am Post subject: |
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| Jake Raby wrote: |
How about 181HP from a 1500??
I did it last week!
It's all in the combo of intake, exhaust and etc- |
not surprising if you have turbo or super charger. |
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RIS
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Joined: December 18, 2003
Posts: 3044
Location: Youngstown, Ohio
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| Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 7:26 am Post subject: |
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| millerje78 wrote: |
| must have been a seriously talented head porter on staff to make numbers like that! that is very cool. |
Hard to top this crew Jesse!
| Quote: |
| Who were the perpetrators of this build for Hot Rod for Hot Rod? None other than Dean and Ken Lowrey, and Gene Berg. |
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