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JSMskater
Samba Grease Gorilla
Joined: February 01, 2006
Posts: 5362
Location: Murrieta California
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supaninja
Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2010
Posts: 4020
Location: houston
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 Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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Ahhh wut up Megasquirt (epicmealtime voice)
here is a awesome list of resources:
http://www.megamanual.com/index.html this is the overview/assembly
http://msextra.com/doc/index.html firmware upgrade and the active MS forum
http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/index.php retailer
http://www.glensgarage.com/catalog/index.php retailer
http://thedubshop.net/ ACVW specialized retailer
http://www.efianalytics.com/TunerStudio/ tuning software
http://rjminjectiontech.com/collections/pigtails-connectors pigtails for Ford sensors
http://home.comcast.net/~whaussmann/EasyTherm5/MSI_EasyTherm5.htm needed when using MS1 and calibrating non-gm temp sensors.
http://vwmegasquirt.tk VW megasquirt forum
http://mobisquirt.org/2011/10/v1-0-available-now/ iphone app
MS can be used for fuel and/or spark, here's an idea of what you will need and what you can reuse from a stock efi setup:
fuel only:
reuse-
plenum/runners/TB
injectors
fuel pump
air filter
what you need-
MS
harness
IAT sensor
Coolant sensor (cht sender can be made to work)
TPS
optional-
relay board
trigger wheel and sensor
Wideband O2 (very very highly recommended)
cam position sensor (needed to go sequential)
spark only
reuse-
nothing
need-
MS
harness
IAT (for iat compensation)
trigger wheel/sensor
cht (helps with tuning)
coil/coils
*coil drivers(depends on what coils are used)
*plug wires(again depends on what coils are used)
*spark plugs(depends on coils or plug wires used)
dizzy hole plug
optional-
cam position sensor (to go sequential if you have 4 coils)
tps (for dataloging purposes)
fuel and spark
just combine the 2 above lists
The above is for converting stock t3 FI to use MS. If you have a performance engine, don't have the stock stuff, or want to run something a little different then there is always the individual throttle body option. You'll need shortened IDF mani's and either a bolt on aftermarket TB kit (ie $$$) or you can get creative and make GSXR TB's work like I did, check out my blog for more info.
Common Sense
Everything that I used for my build is a part that I can easily replace, nothing exotic. For sensors I'm using either Ford or GM, local FLAPs or pic-n-pull kind of stuff. The coil packs are so cheap I got an extra set. The only dicey part is the injectors but that's no big deal, I can buy another TB off ebay. Spark plugs are common miata ones, FLAPs stock item. KISS, no exotic stuff.
Install is another overlooked area. I'm not using a relay board so I needed to add a terminal strip, fuseblock, 3 relays. I also made a ignition box for coil drivers. I went to Lowes and got a thick sheet of plexiglass, easy to work with and non-conductive...smart. I scored a set of MSD ignition box shock mounts to dampen vibration. Electronics hates dust, moisture, and vibration. after I add my last 2 circuits I'm going to conformal coat the pcb to keep the haters at bay. The plexiglass with all the MS goodies mounts nicely behind my driverside kick panel, with the MS and ign box as high as possible from the water line.
_________________
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y163/chucky1974/ninja.gif
Nick
Megasquirted Type 4 powered Notch http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=427890&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
Blog of Doom http://supaninjanick.wordpress.com/
Last edited by supaninja on Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:35 pm; edited 7 times in total |
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voeltzwagen
Samba Member
Joined: June 15, 2009
Posts: 173
Location: Minneapolis
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 5:43 am Post subject: |
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Sweet.
_________________
1973 Squareback, AT, A/C, FI |
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Glenn 
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 79563
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 5:53 am Post subject: |
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I added it to the FAQS/Sticky in the Performance forum.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי |
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supaninja
Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2010
Posts: 4020
Location: houston
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JSMskater
Samba Grease Gorilla
Joined: February 01, 2006
Posts: 5362
Location: Murrieta California
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 9:39 am Post subject: |
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yeah, theres plenty of information out there for the t1 crowd. we'd like to keep it here for the difficulties involved that are unique to the t3.
_________________
71 Squareback-FI -- 73 Bay (subaru powered)
TOOB Member #3
I make D-jet FI connectors |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 79563
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 9:45 am Post subject: |
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I'm not moving it... i just put a link in.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי |
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supaninja
Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2010
Posts: 4020
Location: houston
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KevinR
Samba Member
Joined: August 24, 2005
Posts: 265
Location: Cornelius, OR
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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OK Supaninja, I keep hearing how EDIS is old school, etc... However, I have no intention of running fuel injection. What are the real differences?
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VW Fact #128: Benefits of the Type III: better visibility, more space for people and objects, improved comfort, better roadhandling, reduced oversteer, less sensitivity to cross-winds, and more power. |
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supaninja
Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2010
Posts: 4020
Location: houston
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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EDIS was the hot ticket before the firmware evolved and allowed MS to control spark directly. If you already got all the EDIS stuff then you might as well use it but your going to be limited on features. Your also going to have more "black boxes" in your engine compartment with EDIS. With EDIS your stuck with whatever coils are matched to it, and you have to use a 36-1 wheel.
The only plus to EDIS is the 10 deg advance limp home mode but thats not a beni if you installed everything correctly on a direct fire setup since you won't need a limp home mode.
they both are wasted spark, direct fire lets you set the dwell. direct fire also gives you the option to setup for sequential ignition (you'll need COPs or CNPs, MS2 or MS3, and a cam position sensor to do). With direct fire you get more features like: ign cut rev limiter, 2 step launch control (3 step with MS3), shift light, flat shifting.
If you go with direct fire and self igniting coils then it's a really simple/clean install, or you can spend a little time and wire up some BIP373 (those coil drivers are friggin awesome, almost impossible to smoke them) either inside the MS case or in a seperate ign box like I did.
I tried to present all the facts, you can decide which way you want to go. there is a ton of documentation for either way.
_________________
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y163/chucky1974/ninja.gif
Nick
Megasquirted Type 4 powered Notch http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=427890&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
Blog of Doom http://supaninjanick.wordpress.com/ |
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KevinR
Samba Member
Joined: August 24, 2005
Posts: 265
Location: Cornelius, OR
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Supa, I don't have the stuff for either yet. I have a friend who is really good with EDIS, but nobody is running MS in my group. I am tempted. We shall see....
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VW Fact #128: Benefits of the Type III: better visibility, more space for people and objects, improved comfort, better roadhandling, reduced oversteer, less sensitivity to cross-winds, and more power. |
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piledriver
Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2003
Posts: 187
Location: In my bunker, beside my wall. (Howe, Tx)
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 7:11 am Post subject: |
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How to go sequential/semi-sequential WITHOUT an additional trigger wheel: (STF)
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=131803
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Current daily driver---73 Square, 1.8L T4, MS3+MS3X/sequential w/LS2 coils 80 miles/day. |
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JSMskater
Samba Grease Gorilla
Joined: February 01, 2006
Posts: 5362
Location: Murrieta California
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 9:00 am Post subject: |
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So lets steer this back to t3s a little:
what sensors, if any, can i or should i re-use?
for example -- I could use the stock injectors, since I have all the plugs and whatnot, and they're already sized right, and fit. Now, I would consider changing to L-jet type ones, from a bug or bus. They're a little bigger and I have the right plugs (and nice ones!) for those as well.
Throttle sensor -- can I use it? Should I find another? whats a cheap, easily adaptable alternative?
intake air temp sensor -- I assume there are more accurate units out there for cheap these days... anyone have a preference?
cyl head temp -- same as IAT I assume? preference?
MAP is already in the ecu
oxygen/knock sensor -- how much does this really add to the cost of the system, and is it worth it?
trigger contacts... I don't even know what replaces these?
fuel pump... mine works fine... should I replace it?
AAR/warm up enrichment - its mechanical, and allows air into the system. can MS adapt to this set up as is?
_________________
71 Squareback-FI -- 73 Bay (subaru powered)
TOOB Member #3
I make D-jet FI connectors |
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supaninja
Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2010
Posts: 4020
Location: houston
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piledriver
Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2003
Posts: 187
Location: In my bunker, beside my wall. (Howe, Tx)
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 11:01 am Post subject: |
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Note that the Megasquirt FAQ/forums etc... do NOT cover MSx-extra features.
(If you post on the Megasquirt forums asking or even mentioning MSextra they USED to growl at you, and delete the posts mostly due to the confusion it caused)
The Megasquirt FAQs/website/forums are limited to features in standard B&G code. (which are few.).
It does have excellent descriptions of the hardware etc, as they designed/make it.
B&Gs Megasquirt website & info etc can confuse many new users if you are not aware there is a HUGE difference between std B&G code and MS-extra.
Go to B&Gs Megasquirt.pages for schematics and board layout-- but little else is of any interest except for historical reasons. (exception: MS3 discussion, will explain...)
For MS3 (and ongoing) the MS2-extra codebase became the standard
(MS3 code started with MS2-extra v3 codebase
At this point, MS1-extra is "done", you will probably ever only see bug fixes in the future.
It is considered mature and debugged. There is no memory to add more features.
MS2-extra is almost there too, may see some backports of new MS3 features given programming space and programmer time.
All future development will be on the MS3 platform, as it has a faster processor with more memory and many more I/Os.
_________________
Current daily driver---73 Square, 1.8L T4, MS3+MS3X/sequential w/LS2 coils 80 miles/day.
Last edited by piledriver on Thu Aug 18, 2011 7:56 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Max Welton
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2003
Posts: 11047
Location: Black Forest, CO
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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| supaninja wrote: |
The Ljet injectors should be a straight forward "upgrade", but I'm a big fan of using modern injectors.
The stock tps won't work with MS since it's not a true tps. I'm pretty sure Max used one of these http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=919077 ask Max to verify. |
Yeah, that looks like mine. Made my own adaptor though.
http://www.maxwelton2k.net/squareback68/MST3/tps.htm
| supaninja wrote: |
CHT, aka coolant sensor- I am using the Ljet one since my heads have a nice spot for it near the spark plug, but lots of guys are using the GM one and mount it in the valve cover or downstream of the heads in the airflow. |
That's what I did. Same sender I used for IAT. The actual reading may be a little startling if you expect it to be in oil temp range. Mine hangs out around 300ºF.
http://www.maxwelton2k.net/squareback68/MST3/clt.htm
BTW, I would not do it this way again. Mine leaks, even after installing the sensor with JB Weld. Next time I have an excuse to take the engine out, I'll swap in some heads with the boss for the type-3 CHT sensor.
| supaninja wrote: |
Most of the guys are using the innoate widebands, I'm using a AEM UEGO. It's about $180 and worth every penny. The wideband is what allows you to perfect your tune. |
I can't imagine doing this without a WB and the ability to data-log through a laptop. And register the Tuner-Studio so you can use the VE Analyze Live Feature.
Max
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1967 Type-3 Fastback
Under the Knife https://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=151582
Home Stretch https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=767836 |
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vintagespeedwerks
Samba Member
Joined: July 10, 2004
Posts: 129
Location: OKC, OK
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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good info also :
http://vwmegasquirt.tk
Took off like a bang, now has stalled out. Either way lots of infos.
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New Rims avail, lots of syles |
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supaninja
Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2010
Posts: 4020
Location: houston
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supaninja
Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2010
Posts: 4020
Location: houston
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