| Author |
Message |
skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 17982
Location: sticksville, ct.
|
 Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2015 11:14 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| kreemoweet wrote: |
I think it's pretty well established that excessive current in the brake light circuit, such as would be caused by shorting out a brake light
wire, or even the use of a large add-on "third brake light" can heat up parts in some brake light switches and cause them to fail.
To me, the use of plastics that can melt/deform and cause brake system failure under such conditions, in a brake light switch,
is an obviously faulty design/manufacture practice. But it is likely the easiest/cheapest way to make such switches, and we all know
that the interests of the manufacturer/vendor is the only thing that counts, right? |
bullshit
I have had buses with dead shorts at the lights and NEVER a switch failure, besides, your fuse should blow long before the switch melts.
you seem almost to defend the cheap switches.. I know that's not what you're doing, but seems that way
I have only had OE switches fail electrically, never ONCE have I almost been killed by one.
no matter what this just reinforces the fact YOU HAVE TO HAVE YOUR BRAKE SYSTEM 110% DIALED IN....that means the parking brake better have it's A game too.
I can e-brake and lock up the rear wheels on any of my cars. I will buy the 30.00 hella switches thank you....
_________________
| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Tcash
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 12843
Location: San Jose, California, USA
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2015 11:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
| pierrox wrote: |
You summed it up very well... unfortunately for us.
His beetle is completely stock though, so unless there is a short somewhere, or a wire leaking juice somewhere (or a bad earth?), I don't see why the switch can be under a big load. Also, people don't brake all the time, especially when it's a "sunday car". |
Cut the switches apart. Who knows in your case.
Who manufactured the switches.
Some materials make better conductors and are less resistant to arcing and oxidizing.
Even if the circuit is working properly. If oxidation occurs on the contacts this results in high resistance. High resistance = High current = High heat.
A good example of this is an improperly installed crimp connector. The heat generated by the bad connection will melt and turn the insulation black.
Applying the brakes for just a short time heats the bulb to the degree that it is too hot to handle.
I can only imagine how many degrees a bad switch reaches?
Occasionally I would get an end user that would like to sit there with their foot on the brake. This would result in frequent light bulb changes, melted brake light sockets and housings and in rare instances melted brake light lenses.
Tcash |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kreemoweet
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2008
Posts: 4153
Location: Seattle, WA
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2015 3:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| skills@eurocarplus wrote: |
| bullshit |
Well, maybe, but I think you misread my post.
No one is talking about OEM switches. You seem to have been lucky enough to avoid dealing with the miserable non-OEM switches. Those were all I could find back in the '90's (no internet!), and I got fed up and converted my bus to a mechanical switch, which has been 100% good since. Several posters on thesamba have described catastrophic switch failure where a little spring melts a neat round hole in the plastic casing, and other posts describe leakage between the metal prongs and the plastic case. Perhaps the spring
shown on the webpage at http://www.huelsmann.us/bugman/brake_light_switch_tech.htm is the culprit. I do not know. Far from defending the makers of such atrocities and those who knowingly sell them, it would brighten my day to see the lot hauled off to prison.
_________________
'67 bug: seized by the authorities
'68 bug: seized by the authorities
'71 kombi: not yet seized by the authorities
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cdennisg
Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 21010
Location: Sandpoint, ID
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2015 3:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| kreemoweet wrote: |
| I got fed up and converted my bus to a mechanical switch, which has been 100% good since. |
This is my next step.
_________________
Confusious say it takes it takes two wipes to know you need three, but it takes three wipes to know it only needed two. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
pierrox
Samba Member
Joined: March 06, 2013
Posts: 268
Location: Paris, London, The Alps, North Carolina
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2015 4:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
Yesterday, we installed the new switches on my friend's beetle. Those were more expensive, and sold as "Q+ Quality". Back in the days, we had terrible reproductions and proper quality. Now we have Q+ because Quality isn't quite quality.
Anyway, that was an easy switch (hehe) and then we proceeded with bleeding the brakes. Starting at the rear right wheel, him in the driver seat and me doing VW Yoga under the car (give me a bus at stock height please!). Just a few moments after starting, we heard a loud "BAM!" and I saw brake fluid squirting from the master cylinder. He wasn't even pushing hard on the brakes since they were not even adjusted! The new Q+ switch had literally exploded with the ring holding the plastic part neatly cut like a tin-can.
Scary... We replaced that switch with a spare one he had (probably only "Quality"), bled the brakes, adjusted them and went for a drive. After a couple of miles, I took the wheel to test it. My friend was saying that the brakes felt spongy. I made sure no car was tailing us and decided to see if I could make the tires screech. No chance... We heard the same BAM! sound and the brake pedal hit the floor. Down hill of course, though we were probably only doing 15/20mph as this happened in town. I grabbed the handbrake and slowed enough to take a side street with little traffic. We made it back home in first gear and hand brake.
The car is completely stock. I didn't brake that hard. The tires never got a chance to screech. Any emergency braking (a kid jumping in front on you would trigger a way stronger reflex braking). That's scary. What's the solution! Someone told me that he found a pair of switches in a scrap-yard on an Audi 80.
If no choice, we'll go for the switch on the pedal option, but seriously, do we have to be forced into that kind of stuff?
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kreemoweet
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2008
Posts: 4153
Location: Seattle, WA
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2015 10:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
@pierrox: there were no markings on the switches, or any packaging? Not that the information would be definitive, because Chinese and other
counterfeiters show no compunction about reproducing phoney trademarks. Who sold those bogus items? We all need to "out" the sellers
and makers of these terrible things. You (and anyone in the car) could easily have been killed! Does that not make you angry?
You should immediately inform the seller of your experience. The seller should immediately remove all such stock from sale, and
in turn inform their suppliers of the bogus switches, and so on. If such steps are not taken at once by anyone in the supply chain, then they
should be identified and boycotted.
_________________
'67 bug: seized by the authorities
'68 bug: seized by the authorities
'71 kombi: not yet seized by the authorities
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
pierrox
Samba Member
Joined: March 06, 2013
Posts: 268
Location: Paris, London, The Alps, North Carolina
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2015 1:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I don't remember the brand, they had boxes with logos for sure but there's nothing on the switches themselves.
My friend - that's his beetle - is calling the shop first thing tomorrow. He got them from Mecatechnic here in France, who's in theory a decent place as it's one of the only two shops that were granted a VW Heritage license.
You're entirely right, we're pretty pi**ed off at the whole story - especially as it's the second time we change those switches. Those were supposed to be the cream of the cream, at twice the price of the German Quality ones, and 4 times the price of crappy ones. Nobody got hurt because he had no faith in those and when I braked hard, I already had a hand on the handbrake. But you're entirely right, if that hadn't happened during our little test, it could have happened later... in a real emergency situation. And in that case, it would have been pretty dramatic!
I'll ask him if he's got the package. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tcash
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 12843
Location: San Jose, California, USA
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2015 1:22 pm Post subject: Brake Light Switch ID T2 |
|
|
To link to this thread
| Code: |
| [url=https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7836117#7836117]Brake Light Switch ID T2[/url] |
113 945 515 H brake light switch 2 prong
68-69 T2 Three 2 prong switches. Two switches for brake lights, One switch for brake warning light.
70-79 vehicles Without brake warning light
113 945 515 G T2 brake light switch 3 prong
70-79 T2 vehicles With brake warning light
Spanner Size: 24
Width [mm]: 24
Length [mm]: 48
Thread Length [mm]: 9
Thread Size: M10x1 konisch
Mounting Type: Plug Connection
Number of Poles: 3
Operating Mode: Electric-hydraulic
Brake Light Switch Wiring
1968-69 Brake light switch wiring
1970-71 Brake Warning Light - Early Syle - Push Red "B" To Test
From 2-terminal to 3-terminal, brake-light switch & warning-light upgrade circuit
Key to diagram
A = electric switch inside brake-circuit-failure warning-light unit
B = 3-terminal brake-light switch
C = Dual-circuit brake warning lamp
a = blue cable to brake-circuit-failure warning-light unit's
internal switch-terminal 61 (shared with ignition warning light)
b = black cable to fuse-box terminal 15
c = brown cable to Earth (i.e. Ground in USA parlance)
d = black/red cable to brake lights
Parts Diagram
Brake Light Switch Technical Article/ Eric Huelsmann
http://www.huelsmann.us/bugman/brake_light_switch_tech.htm
http://www.airheadparts.com/vintage-vw-parts/vanag...13945515-h
http://airheadparts.com/vintage-vw-parts/vanagon-s...13945515-g
Last edited by Tcash on Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:38 pm; edited 7 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rottenkid
Samba Member
Joined: June 19, 2015
Posts: 240
Location: Warkworth, ontario
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
pierrox
Samba Member
Joined: March 06, 2013
Posts: 268
Location: Paris, London, The Alps, North Carolina
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2016 8:04 am Post subject: Re: brake light switch failure, no brakes! |
|
|
Now that's pretty cool. And they clearly know who they are targeting.
_________________
Our bus is on Instagram
instagram.com/biencuitbus |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tcash
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 12843
Location: San Jose, California, USA
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
vwwestyman
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2004
Posts: 5874
Location: Wamego, Kansas, USA
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
