Folks who have used the Small Car kit for the Subaru 2.5 swap...

[888]

After all of the deliberations in the thread below, I decided to use the Small car kit for the swap. There are pros and cons to every option but a decision had to be made so I made it.

https://www./vw/forum/posting.php?mode=reply&t=675283&sid=6c2880b06168cd8a38a66634eff5ba38

I have some extra money right now due to 3 weeks of 14 hour days on a machine rebuild service trip so now is the time.

I'm trying to sort through the list of optional items on the Small Car web site but my Malware alarm keeps freaking out.

From what I can see, it appears that the motor mounts are standard stuff available much cheaper through Bus Depot or other sources.

What about the clutch kit, is that a standard Subaru item? I have friends at the local Subaru dealer so I can get stuff there at a discount.

Anything else that is "standard" supply not specific to the Small Car kit?

Thanks

[djkeev]

Wouldn't Small Car be able to tell you exactly what is needed in addition to their kit??

Dave
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[angrychicken]

I've had the SC for a few years. My van is in the Cascades often, been to BC a few times, as far east as Chicago, and a couple of times in Baja. It gets used.
The mounts are ok, no problems thus far.
The exhaust piping is horrible. In terms of customer service, they are friendly, but def don't stand by their products. The stainless steel exhaust started looking like rusted 20 year old piping within a year. I've had to repair several cracks in the header, it will get replaced by this when I return stateside: http://www.stans-headers.com/toyota_headers.htm
I'd encourage you to avoid their header and exhaust unless the have made drastic improvements.
A positive thing is the oil pain they sell. It's a nice machined piece that seems bullet proof. I would def buy that piece again, I think it's worth having.

[Sodo]

If you use the Smallcar bellhousing, to drain the gear oil properly you have to grind a 1/2 inch spillway.

Otherwise it retains the dirtiest part of the old oil --- to contaminate your fresh gear oil. This gets more important because a big engine + old trans makes more metal in your gear oil, so you have to change it more often. But for your old oil to contaminate your fresh new oil is a flaw - for sure.

Here's a pic showing it with the RJES bellhousing.

It's really easy to grind that spillway and solve that flaw. Smallcar could do before shipping it out, but it's been ~8 years now and they don't feel it's necessary I guess. Like another guy mentions, when you put in a bellhousing you have new gear oil and nobody thinks of changing oil. They just wanna see how that new engine drives. But this little flaw adds doom and gloom to a very expensive part of your van (the trans). And then you have to find someone who's competent to rebuild it, and there are't all that many rebuilders. For most of the country, you'll have to ship it somewhere to get it done such that it will last.

Also with the Smallcar bellhousing the clutch action is a little more "abrupt". The feather/slip portion of the pedal action is shorter and occurs high up near the top of the pedal travel. Some folks have solved this by modifying the Vanagon clutch pedal. I will do that to mine someday. Here's some discussion on it https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8285282#8285282
_________________


'90 Westy EJ25, NEW oil rings (!) 2Peloquins, 3knobs, SyncroShop pressure-oiled pinion-bearing & GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox.
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered original gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb

[888]

[888]

[888]

[alaskadan]

I bought my kit 4 years ago. Something that became available since is the modified clutch pedal. Since most original clutch pedals have oblong ed holes and need fixing anyhow, this modified pedal negates the need for the frowned upon plastic spacer that goes in your master cylinder. There are other vss options that arent exposed like the small car one that goes on a cv flange. Sourced different nuts and bolts for exhaust because the stainless ones in kit were super soft and galled upon first use.

Note: My spacer in the master has been working fine. The vss has taken a shot from a rock or something and needed to be repaired once.

[davevickery]

I don't like some of the Smallcar stuff. A lot of experts seem to pick and choose different components rather than a complete kit. Also there is a tendency to go for every upgrade but most upgrades have a trade off that people don't tell you about. Simpler is better in many ways.

There are many divided views on the Smallcar bell housing. I went with a simple adapter plate. I don't like the complexity of their new reverse coolant manifold either. Their speed sensor from years ago was kind of cheap, I don't know if it is still the same. The RMW is said to be better, which I currently have. I like the look of their oil pan, but I've heard of some casting issues. Still don't like the chopped off pans either, so I would probably go with their pan or maybe Outfront Motor Sports. I have a stan's header which seems fine. I had a KEP and a small car header on my last conversion, both seemed fine but that was before SC switched to stainless which seemed to cause cracking issues for quite a while. I don't know if they sorted that out. It is good to ask about specific components and try to get honest feedback about any potential trade offs.

[davevickery]

[dgbeatty]

The current Smallcar headers are a great improvement over their earlier/earliest version. Much thicker and more resistant to cracking. A bit of surface rust is be be expected on the type of stainless commonly used in exhaust.
Perhaps a personal opinion but I believe that the RJES bellhousing is the best on the market. The RJES throttle cable is beyond compare, seems such a small thing but is hugely important. The "tank" from RMW is another best in class item. If you have a stock speedo the GoWesty speed sensor is nice. Unless you like noise avoid metal in you air cleaner setup because of the resonance it transmits. If you would decide to have headers built use the RJES cast maniflods, beautiful. The Burley coolant pipe is neat and works great.

[Team WorldTour]

[pbrown]

I am gathering parts for a Subaru 2.5 swap next spring. I will be using the RJES bell housing based on many threads complaining about the Small Car version. It is a work of art.

I'll be using the Small Car engine mount and oil pan though.

I wasn't aware of the Stan's header for Subaru swaps. That looks like a good option. Small Car did recreate their header with thicker material. I've not seen any feedback yet.

I'm basically choosing the best components from each vendor. This creates a risk that something might not work with something else. I'm okay with this and have the ability to work through most issues.
_________________
Patrick Brown

1986 Westy Syncro EJ25
Flickr --> https://flic.kr/s/aHsmQNUXEF

[888]

[dobryan]

Read up on the feedback about SC standing behind their products. Be sure your 'single source' is customer friendly.....
_________________
Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2010 Subaru EJ25 (Vanaru) and Peloquin TBD

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[888]

[Sodo]

For Smallcar Bellhousing, new is $649. But then you have to mod your clutch pedal (need to inspect it anyway) and grind a spillway for the drain (easy). These are not very hard to do and with those fixed, are there any any flaws remaining? With the clutch-pedal mod; you're not over-driving the VW/Golf slave/throwout bearing unit and that's solved too. SmallCar bellhousing uses the Subaru flywheel, Subaru starter and clutch. This works out if you can locate a used bellhousing for cheap. Depending on delivery cost RJES may have the drop on Smallcar, but Smallcar is do-able.

How much does the RJES bellhousing cost delivered to your door? ( £ 470.00 in UK, = $617 US) http://www.rjes.com/html/bellhousing_kits.html

On my SmallCar exhaust, it cracked after 8 months. Smallcar said maybe they'll redesign it so I waited and didn't press them for warranty etc because I thought they'd do me right once they redesigned it. So I welded cracks for several years waiting for a redesign.

By the end my exhaust looked like bamboo, very rusty bamboo. I cut and welded my exhaust MANY times. I found that the surface rust doesn't go deep, it doesn't "rust thru". So the surface rust is just "unattractive" but not detrimental.

When they finally redesigned it I asked them about taking care of me. They declined, said I'd have to pay full-pop for a new header. I didn't want to take that chance again (no support) and bought a Vanaru header. Luck was involved but it was expensive, $900. I don't think you can get Vanaru headers anymore. The one I have is 6 years old and I can still read the Vanaru logo etched into the Stainless. I'm happy with my Vanaru header but grumping because I thought SmallCar should have taken better care of their customer.

The question is.... are the current crop of SmallCar exhaust reliable? And if not, are they taking care of their customers?

So this is basically reinforcement of your decision to cherry-pick. I think their EJ25 cast sump is a great product, and haven't heard anything but praise so you're pretty safe on that one.
_________________


'90 Westy EJ25, NEW oil rings (!) 2Peloquins, 3knobs, SyncroShop pressure-oiled pinion-bearing & GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox.
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered original gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb

[davevickery]

The bellhousing solved a problem that didn't exist. No one was complaining about the adapter plate. There are many more conversions running around with adapter plates since bellhousing is a more recent "improvement". If you go with an adapter plate, you might need to buy an 86+ starter, the 84s are 3/4 vs 1 hp I believe. You don't need a TDI starter or anything, the stock 86+ starters are fine. I think Smallcar still sells adapter plates too because some people prefer them.

You can start making a list of what you think you want and just post it up and people can tell you if something isn't compatible or if they would recommend something else. If you have the wire harness done, there is a guy in the classifieds that comes highly recommended, JrobeWesty. I had Smallcar do mine on a prior van. The cost difference probably isn't enough to matter either way.

I don't like the RMW coolant tank because you can't see the level like you can with the stock plastic tank. People like it, though. But to me it a few more non-stock parts (tank, cap and level sensor).

Burley Motorsports has a few nice accessories like the coolant return pipe and the throttle adapter piece. A few companies make a reversed coolant manifold. If you go with Smallcar's coolant setup, then you probably get stuck using their aftermarket custom manifold. The simpler solution has been to just modify the stock subaru one cutting and rewelding and adding extra ports. I don't think whatever advantages the smallcar one has are worth having another custom part and more complicated coolant hose routing.

With the 2001 2.5 you can go with an intake ducting from a 2.2 including the air filter box. That would save you some money and it fits in the corner nicely. Otherwise if you don't want to do that you have to decide what intake/ filter you want. I have had KEP on both my vans. It is fine but the quality is not up to OEM standards IMO. But it is popular and works. All the new parts start to add up. Even a reversed manifold isn't necessary. North Westy prefers not to use a reversed manifold, he mentions why on his website.

I can see how it could get a bit overwhelming trying to figure out what to buy. But basically if you said you want to start with a SC kit, I would say skip the bellhousing, see if there are better options on the coolant manifold. The rest of it I don't have any real objection too.

[pbrown]

My RJES bellhousing kit was £448.67 back in 2014 FWIW. That would be $579.86 in today's exchange rate.
_________________
Patrick Brown

1986 Westy Syncro EJ25
Flickr --> https://flic.kr/s/aHsmQNUXEF

[Howesight]

[quote="888"]After all of the deliberations in the thread below, I decided to use the Small car kit for the swap. There are pros and cons to every option but a decision had to be made so I made it.

https://www./vw/forum/posting.php?mode=reply&t=675283&sid=6c2880b06168cd8a38a66634eff5ba38

I have some extra money right now due to 3 weeks of 14 hour days on a machine rebuild service trip so now is the time.

I'm trying to sort through the list of optional items on the Small Car web site but my Malware alarm keeps freaking out.

From what I can see, it appears that the motor mounts are standard stuff available much cheaper through Bus Depot or other sources.

What about the clutch kit, is that a standard Subaru item? I have friends at the local Subaru dealer so I can get stuff there at a discount.

Anything else that is "standard" supply not specific to the Small Car kit?



I enjoy fabricating, so the somewhat lower quality control of the SmallCar parts did not really bother me. To try to answer most of your questions and to impart what I have learned over 6 years, here are my comments:

1. My conversion is an SVX engine, so using an adapter plate was not acceptable to me, given the greater leverage that the longer flat-6 causes on adaptor plates.

2. As SODO mentions above, do grind the transaxle drain area. I fiddle with a rag and wire rods to clean out gunk at gear oil change time because I did not do this.

3. Buy your clutch release slave/bearing unit from SmallCar. Note the part number and next time, go to the dealer or elsewhere. They do get the highest quality unit out of a spectrum of parts makers with, ahem, "variable" quality.

4. Be VERY careful not to over-extend the clutch slave. The SmallCar instructions do a frankly crappy job of explaining this and of explaining the need for the plastic ring (about 1/2" thick, and about 3/4" diameter) that comes in their "kit". It is meant to be installed on the clutch master cylinder actuator rod to limit the stroke of the clutch pedal. It's a bad solution to a real problem. Over-extending the clutch travel causes two SERIOUS problems: a. The slave cylinder is damaged by over-extending travel beyond the designed stroke. It will not fail, however, until the most exceedingly inconvenient time. b. It damages the pressure plate as its diaphragm spring is not designed to bend to the point that the SC clutch setup will permit. So there goes another $300, if you do not heed this warning.

5. In my case, I determined exactly where, in the travel of the clutch pedal, the point of release occurred. I then added about 1/4" and installed a piece of metal that stops the clutch pedal from traveling any further. This is also not the best solution, since the clutch pedal travel is very limited and for strangers driving my rig, the clutch feels like an on/off switch. Of course, I am used to it now.

6. The best solution is one that re-locates the hole in the clutch pedal to which the clevis is attached. This results in the clutch pedal moving further for the same amount of movement of the piston in the clutch master cylinder. There was a fellow modifying clutch pedals on an exchange basis, but I think he stopped doing this. There is a thread that shows how to do this mod.

7. SmallCar uses a custom clutch disk and a custom pressure plate. With enough research, you might find exactly where they sourced both and find a better price. But I strongly suggest that you skip that small savings exercise and bite the clutch bullet. I knew that their disk was a custom unit, so I bought 2, keeping one in my in-vehicle parts bin. This is cheap insurance against a ruined vacation. I also keep a spare clutch slave in the van.

8. The first iteration of SC stainless headers were crap. Mine cracked like Sodo's did. But I just MIG welded the cracks from time to time. This past spring, I finally replaced the old header with their new design unit, made from a better grade of stainless steel and in a thicker gauge. So far, so good. I have not yet heard of anyone whose new-generation SC header has failed.

9. There is no magic in SC rubber engine mounts. Van Cafe, Bus Depot or GoWesty units will be fine.

10. The passenger-side motor-mount "bar" in the SC mount will need to be notched to clear the dipstick spigot on the SC cast aluminum oil pan. See the pic below:

11. I like the fact that I use a stock Subaru flywheel, and stock Subaru starter. Don't buy a re-built starter - - it will fail. Go to a wrecker yard and buy a used factory-original unit. It will last.

12. Don't forget to use the correct-length and grade flywheels bolts - - SC sells them. The automatic trans flex-plate bolts are not long enough.

13. SC sells most Subaru parts at less than the "bricks and mortar" dealer price, but slightly more than online dealer sellers.

14. SC does not sell the Subaru parts needed to fill in the gap between the lower part of the engine and trans. Here is the part number:

11441AA01011442AA01
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'86 Syncro Westy SVX