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Newbie Help - Air flow meter and fuel injectors
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JSlate
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:16 pm    Post subject: Newbie Help - Air flow meter and fuel injectors Reply with quote

Hey everyone,
I was hoping someone may be able to help me troubleshoot my engine problems. It seems related to the air mass handler, but I am not sure what to do next. From the video, you can see these terms dont roll off the tongue for me Very Happy

Hopefully someone can point me in the right direction.
Thank you!


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Last edited by JSlate on Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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djkeev Premium Member
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Newbie Help - Air mass handler and fuel injectors Reply with quote

Air Flow Meter ........ AFM

Having The proper name for the device will help you search for solutions.

Dave
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khughes
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Newbie Help - Air mass handler and fuel injectors Reply with quote

So what was done to it to get it to where it is? How about a little history of what happened when?
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Igeo
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Newbie Help - Air mass handler and fuel injectors Reply with quote

The big slotted (bypass) screw on the throttle body just opens or closes a restriction and simply lets more air past the butterfly (screwed out- more air- higher idle speed), or less air (screwed in- lower idle speed). Its basiclally an adjustable vacuum leak. It only allows small changes in idle speed. That's not your issue. Screw it in until it gently bottoms, then back it out a half turn or so and move on.

I'm hearing a weak battery, a dragging starter or an engine with too much initial ignition advance. That also is probabaly not your trouble, but shoud be investigated.

I would check the throttle switch adjustment:
https://youtu.be/eTphzNgG5ns
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JSlate
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Newbie Help - Air mass handler and fuel injectors Reply with quote

khughes wrote:
So what was done to it to get it to where it is? How about a little history of what happened when?



I was blowing white smoke out of my engine, found out my head gasket was blown. I had that replaced and a few new spark plugs.

I had a pretty large gas leak in one of my fuel injectors, so to save some cash, my mechanic recommended I replace them myself along with the what he called "air mass meter" but Ive been corrected that its a Air Flow Meter.

The van was running very strange before I started replacing the fuel injectors and air flow meter. It was bucking quite a bit and sometimes wouldnt get up to speed. The gas leak was really bad as well. I watching my gas meter just drain.

After replacement, I cannot get it to stay running without unplugging the air flow meter.
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djkeev Premium Member
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Newbie Help - Air flow meter and fuel injectors Reply with quote

It is obviously a 2.1 engine.

What year is the Van?
EDIT: just saw 1990 on the video title.
How early is the 90? Look at the white sticker on the drivers door jamb for a build date.

What injectors did you install?
Did you keep the old ones? Hopefully the answer is yes.

Which head gaskets were replaced? Left or right?
Did it run ok before the head work but not now after the head work?
Or did it run poorly previously with the white smoke?

Replacing a AFM is a drastic step when checking the operation of one is so ridiculously easy.

You only replaced a "few" spark plugs? Not all four?

You only replaced one injector or all four?

Dave
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Last edited by djkeev on Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:18 pm; edited 4 times in total
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Igeo
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Newbie Help - Air flow meter and fuel injectors Reply with quote

Also check the grounds. Very important and cost friendly.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=548492
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JSlate
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Newbie Help - Air flow meter and fuel injectors Reply with quote

Igeo wrote:
Also check the grounds. Very important and cost friendly.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=548492


OMG thatll take me all day haha
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JSlate
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Newbie Help - Air flow meter and fuel injectors Reply with quote

djkeev wrote:
It is obviously a 2.1 engine.

What year is the Van?
EDIT: just saw 1990 on the video title.
How early is the 90? Look at the white sticker on the drivers door jamb for a build date.

What injectors did you install?
Did you keep the old ones? Hopefully the answer is yes.

Which head gaskets were replaced? Left or right?
Did it run ok before the head work but not now after the head work?
Or did it run poorly previously with the white smoke?

Replacing a AFM is a drastic step when checking the operation of one is so ridiculously easy.

You only replaced a "few" spark plugs? Not all four?

You only replaced one injector or all four?

Dave


Looked in the door, no white sticker there other than just a bar code. Nothing under dash near door jamb that had a date on it. It is a 1990

I installed 4 injectors from: https://www.busdepot.com/025906031

Both head gaskets were replaced.

It ran alright before the white smoke and head gasket replacement. My mechanic was recommended by a large local VW vanagon FB group so I believe he did a good job, but didnt completely finish the job for me since I told him I maxed out my budget. He said those were the last 2 things to do. I drove the car home before replacing the 4 injectors. After replacing the injectors, I had the same with starting. After replacing the Air Flow Meter, I still had problems.

All 4 spark plugs replaced by mechanic.

The AFM was a rebuild from GoWesty: https://www.gowesty.com/product/air-intake/23992/rebuilt-air-flow-meter-?v=
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Russpauly
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Newbie Help - Air flow meter and fuel injectors Reply with quote

JSlate wrote:
Igeo wrote:
Also check the grounds. Very important and cost friendly.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=548492


OMG thatll take me all day haha


Ehhh. Not that bad. I bought new ground trees sometime last year and it been on my todo list since owning my van for 2 years. Started having some issues and that was one of the first things I did. It took maybe 2 hours. Wasnít that bad.

Ended up not fixing my problems, but now I know I donít have a bad ground.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Newbie Help - Air flow meter and fuel injectors Reply with quote

Spit balling. The really smells like gas "seems like it is spraying gas over here" part paired with just replaced injectors is a pretty big flashing light... obviously shouldn't be doing that. I'd be double checking there first. If, say you missed putting a seal between an injector and the head seems like that'd be a huge vacuum leak plus maybe blowing gas around. Again, just random internet gueses.
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zoti
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Newbie Help - Air flow meter and fuel injectors Reply with quote

If you smell gas you might smell a BBQ soon.

First thing I would do is go over all the fuel lines and replace. Once that is done, verify there is no more gas leaking. Also replace the fuel injectors seals.

Then start the engine. If it shuts off like in the video, can you keep it running with your foot on the gas pedal? Will it stay running after a few minutes?

If you really want to fix the issue you will need to learn how to check timing, vacuum leaks and proper adjustment of the 2.1L WBX.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 6:51 am    Post subject: Re: Newbie Help - Air flow meter and fuel injectors Reply with quote

when you are confirming the seals on the injectors are properly fitted into the manifold, pop the valve covers off and double check the valve lash since the heads were replaced.

i set mine to 1.5 turns after making contact. use your fingers to turn the screw to feel when it makes contact, then tighten one full turn and then a half a turn.

the procedure is here:

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=177485
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JSlate
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:02 am    Post subject: Re: Newbie Help - Air flow meter and fuel injectors Reply with quote

mikemtnbike wrote:
Spit balling. The really smells like gas "seems like it is spraying gas over here" part paired with just replaced injectors is a pretty big flashing light... obviously shouldn't be doing that. I'd be double checking there first. If, say you missed putting a seal between an injector and the head seems like that'd be a huge vacuum leak plus maybe blowing gas around. Again, just random internet gueses.


I think you may be on to something....

I remember putting in those fuel injectors into the head and thinking, "That doesnt feel very tight, maybe the bolt will hold the pair of injectors in place (im not sure what the part is called)."

I did keep my old injectors, so I'll go ahead disassemble and post some photos later today to compare.

Edit: after looking up some photos, I definitely did not use small gaskets, and never saw any on my old injectors



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:05 am    Post subject: Re: Newbie Help - Air flow meter and fuel injectors Reply with quote

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there are TWO rubber rings per injector - the larger one holds the injector in place, it's what the metal bracket pushes against. the small ring goes in the manifold hole and the tip of the injector goes in that.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:17 am    Post subject: Re: Newbie Help - Air flow meter and fuel injectors Reply with quote

dabaron wrote:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


there are TWO rubber rings per injector - the larger one holds the injector in place, it's what the metal bracket pushes against. the small ring goes in the manifold hole and the tip of the injector goes in that.


Well I think I found the problem. The smaller gaskets are definitely on the old injectors... Wow.

I found this pic on my phone from when I first started.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Newbie Help - Air flow meter and fuel injectors Reply with quote

JSlate wrote:
Well I think I found the problem. The smaller gaskets are definitely on the old injectors... Wow.

I found this pic on my phone from when I first started.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I may be way off base here, but I don't think those new injectors will fit correctly. The bodies appear to have different dimensions lengthwise and the tip won't be far enough inside of the injection chamber.

Could you post another photo of both but with the largest circumference areas closest to the tip aligned? It might just be an optical illusion the way you have them positioned.

Also, the new hose should be the same length as the old.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Newbie Help - Air flow meter and fuel injectors Reply with quote

you would be best served IMO, to send your original bosch injectors to one of the many well known reputable outfits that refurbishes injectors. run the injectors you have until you get your old ones back--they will work, just not as optimally as the originals. the small rubber parts are the actual seals. the big ones just serve to hold the injectors in once the bolt is tightened. make sure old seals are not stuck in the intake, they have a tendency to do that.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Newbie Help - Air flow meter and fuel injectors Reply with quote

Yeah...... that's kinda where I was headed asking about how it ran previously and in particular asking if he still had the injectors.

The question about the injectors wasn't answered so I backed off.

Dave
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JSlate
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:47 am    Post subject: Re: Newbie Help - Air flow meter and fuel injectors Reply with quote

djkeev wrote:
Yeah...... that's kinda where I was headed asking about how it ran previously and in particular asking if he still had the injectors.

The question about the injectors wasn't answered so I backed off.

Dave


I do still have the injectors. Like some others mentioned, the "new" injectors may not be the best option for me. I will look into that after resolving now a bigger problem...

In the process of removing the right side fuel injectors, my bolt broke. How? Well I'm starting to realize that I am probably causing more harm than good here. I'm very disappointed I made such a big mistake here, and not really sure what to do about it at this point. I've been looking into methods for removing the broken and stripped bolt, but probably not a good idea for me personally to be doing anything at this point... I feel defeated



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