Author |
Message |
craigman Samba Member

Joined: March 28, 2004 Posts: 2425 Location: redding
|
Posted: Sat May 14, 2011 2:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I personally think squirts would be a great addition to any build. Stock to wild.
I'd love to try them someday. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
yamaducci Samba Member

Joined: March 30, 2010 Posts: 2373 Location: Mount Airy, Maryland
|
Posted: Sat May 14, 2011 10:36 am Post subject: |
|
|
flyinglow94 wrote: |
So where is the best place to get the Porsche oil squirts? I have looked on line at some Porsche suppliers and didnt see an advertisement on these little things. Does any one have a part # they can share? |
http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/smart/more_inf...8%39%29%20
Edit: I had my parts at Brothers Machine but they told me they sub that procedure out.
Not sure but Rimco may have been the guys. I know they have been doing it forever. FAT can do it as well. _________________ -John Cox
My 2498 Turbo Re-Build Thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5578697#5578697
3rd Brake Light Safety Stars- I still have a couple with blue light left. Email me if interested.
Last edited by yamaducci on Tue May 17, 2011 6:01 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
flyinglow94 Samba Member

Joined: January 17, 2005 Posts: 1173 Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
|
Posted: Sat May 14, 2011 10:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
So where is the best place to get the Porsche oil squirts? I have looked on line at some Porsche suppliers and didnt see an advertisement on these little things. Does any one have a part # they can share? _________________ "What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: 'tis dearness only that gives everything its value. Heaven knows how to put a proper price upon its goods; and it would be strange indeed if so celestial an article as FREEDOM should not be highly rated."
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure,the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy,its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.." |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
yamaducci Samba Member

Joined: March 30, 2010 Posts: 2373 Location: Mount Airy, Maryland
|
Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
I just had them done on my 2500cc turbo case; should receive it Thursday so no testing yet but I can tell you that the majority of 1600 class desert racing engine have them and don't use a 30,mm pump. Most use 26-28mm. THey steadily run in the 3500-6000RPM range so the pressure is there to make them work well. _________________ -John Cox
My 2498 Turbo Re-Build Thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5578697#5578697
3rd Brake Light Safety Stars- I still have a couple with blue light left. Email me if interested. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Ian Godfrey Samba Member
Joined: September 25, 2006 Posts: 1204 Location: Melbourne Australia
|
Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:26 am Post subject: |
|
|
Scott, 2387, 175 flywheel hp. heavy ghia, SE heads (less fins) flat out on the curcuit (110mph sustained), 280 F heads on a 100 degree day. all tin etc with 2 mods, ceramic head and piston coating and porsche squirters, really keep the temps down.
I have no back to back testing, but i am very happy with the result. Dakota digital not VDO so very accurate temps. 1600's get hotter than this if you flog them!
I reckon squirters are a logical part of the package IF you need additional cooling in your application. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Scott Faivre Samba Member

Joined: February 26, 2004 Posts: 368 Location: Las Vegas, NV - USA
|
Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
...BUMP!
Has the verdict come in on these oil squirters? I'm still on the fence and I'm at the point in my project that if I'm going to do the mod, I need to do it now. _________________ 66 Sedan & 64 Convertible
64 Vert Resto Gallery |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
johnnypan Samba Member

Joined: October 24, 2007 Posts: 7431 Location: sackamenna
|
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
Piston coolers are a vital part of heavy diesel technology,just lost #3 piston and liner on a cummins ISX due to a mechanic using too much silicone gasket maker on a oil cooler gasket...silicon got in the oil galley and plugged the "squirter " and the piston seized...Its definately worth the effort to use coolers if you pushing combustion chamber temps beyond the limit ...cheap insurance provided you have enough oil volume... |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Eaallred Samba Member

Joined: May 18, 2003 Posts: 5756 Location: West Valley City, Utah
|
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 6:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
The squirters in my 62 Jeep engine are built into the connecting rods and they spray all the time, no pressure limits.
Not so much for cooling though, more just to lubricate. It's an I-4 with over 9" rods. The motor redlines at 3200rpm so there's just not much 'splash oiling' going on way up there in the cylinders.
I can picture a v-notch in the rod working effectively if done right. _________________ Eric Allred
You have to remember something: Everybody pities the weak; Jealousy you have to earn. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
1961bluebug Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2002 Posts: 1137 Location: Czech Republic, Europe
|
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 3:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
can I have some pics of this mod? what would be a correct size for this hole?
Thanks, |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
nsracing Samba Member

Joined: November 16, 2003 Posts: 9743 Location: NOVA
|
Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 11:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
gblakeney wrote: |
I saw some pistons the other day that had oil holes drilled from the oil ring deck through to the wrist pin boss - looked like a really cool way to divert oil straight to the pin rather than just splash.
Has anyone done this themselves? |
I do them all the time to stock pistons. All it is drill work at the correct angle.
I thought about making several drilling jigs so anyone can do it themselves. Almost all high performance pistons out on the market will have this modification done from factory.
The oil will pressurize the ports when its on its way down..scraping off oil off the cylinder walls.
Simple but neat trick really. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
propflux01 Samba Member

Joined: June 03, 2006 Posts: 501 Location: Central Arkansastan
|
Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 5:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
The stock pressure relief system is designed to start relieving pressure at 28PSI. it Will not, however, limit total pressure to that 28psi as there is too much volume and pressure for it to do that, hence why you see that 40+ PSI at speed. It is mainly designed to prevent excess pressure that would occur if it wasn't there. This is why those booster springs work to increase pressure. If you were to remove the spring, and stack a bushing or bunch of washers to prevent the piston from uncovering the sump return port, you would see an amazing amount of oil pressure (provided you didn't blow out your cooler first). |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
A.J.Sims Banned

Joined: December 11, 2003 Posts: 1016 Location: LowBugget.com 982 N Batavia A4 Orange Ca 92867
|
Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 9:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The way i add piston squirters is correct.
We do all the work in house.
I use to use Rimco for the Porsche style but after some testing i notice that most motors when cruising would not se 45psi all the time or enough to take full advantage.
In my motor I se higher oil temps around 10* but can se 30* and lower head temps. All test were Back to back in the same motor. My turbo motor has them and it has over 45,000 miles on it. when going to Vegas on the Gean Berg cruise up the Baker grade with outside temp at 113* my oil temp was 227*, Sump temp 189*, head temp was 298*. Doug Berg had to look at my temp gun as i pointed it to se how cool the motor was running. I now use our piston squirters in most of the turnkey turbo combos that are trying to push that pump gas edge. It is $120 extra, it was $160 when Rimco was doing the work.
True a hole that is the "wrong size" would bleed off psi.
PS. If you have crap going through your oil that can block anything, you have other problems! _________________ Have tech questions? Need real help? Give us a call.
www.Lowbugget.com
982 North Batavia A4, Orange Ca 92867.
68 drag bug 1915cc 10.50's @130mph
66 fastback 2387cc turbo street car
67 baja 2054cc turbo. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Bruce Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2003 Posts: 17583 Location: Left coast, Canada
|
Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 6:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Marty Staggs wrote: |
Bruce wrote: |
Thanks, you've just saved a bunch of people a whole bunch of money! |
SO mean to say that the motor never sees any more than 28 PSI oil pressure? Are you HIGH???  |
I never said the engine will not see more than 28psi. I just said the squirters won't work. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Bruce Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2003 Posts: 17583 Location: Left coast, Canada
|
Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 6:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Marty Staggs wrote: |
Bruce wrote: |
Anyone know at what pressure does the stock pressure relief valve dump excess pressure to the sump? I think it is below 45psi, rendering the squirters useless. |
You CLEARLY do not know what you are talking about.
On average, your motor will have 10 PSI per 1000 RPM's minimum. Yes the bypasses start to bleed off pressure but they dont stop it at 28PSI.  |
I guess you don't understand how a pressure relief valve works. I have seen that silly 10psi/1000rpm spec people toss around, and it simply can't exist in a hydraulic system that has a pressure relief valve. With a positive displacement pump, if you double the rpm, you double the volume that is pumped. Given a fixed leakage, you will see a doubling of the pressure. However, with a pressure relief valve, the leakage will drastically increase once you hit the relief valve setting, therefore limiting the pressure in the system. The pressure may not hit a solid limit, depending on the volume of the pump, the flow capacity of the relief port and the viscosity of the oil. In other words, it is possible to exceed the pressure rating of the relief valve, but you will never see a linear 10psi/1000rpm.
My claim is that you will never have a continuous 45psi of oil pressure at cruising speed when you want the squirters to be cooling the pistons. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
vwdmc16 Samba Member

Joined: January 12, 2006 Posts: 1734 Location: sacramento, CA
|
Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 6:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
heres another approach, on the STF there has bee a great thread about Jonas Linder, a crazy Swede making a sick ass turbo type 4 from scratch and with little money, any who he had a few top end cooling issues so a person by "peumansjoris" suggested some cheap oil squirter ideas, heres the link, it is around half down the page.
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=88864&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=180
as you'll see the oil is pumped in from the outside, the oil pressure sensor port. so you could turn it on or off easily. the jet could be aimed manually too to get it in the sweet spot.
my idea would be to have a pre set pressure switch (say 45psi?) also on that external line and that could trigger a small solinoid valve to turn the external system on/off and have a manual overide for warm ups or something.
that could solve just about all the problems and on a budget _________________ "Fiberglass is for boats and race cars-Steel is real-fix it right the first time"-Wolff
'72 Ghia: http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n146/vwdmc17/100_1964.jpg
'72 Honda Z600
'81 Delorean
www.EVILGENIUSRACING.com |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
bugninva Samba Member

Joined: December 14, 2004 Posts: 8858 Location: sound it out.
|
Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 1:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Marty Staggs wrote: |
[
And YOU obviously dont have a motor that could or would get any benefit from them. Your motor also sounds a bit "loose" to me.
The only people that would benefit have a performance engine with larger oil pumps that also turn more RPM's.
This would be a modification for a "higher end" type motor and not the typical daily driver or budget project. |
someone forgot to pull the stick out of their ass this morning..... you have to realize that you OBVIOUSLY like blankets statements....such as:
Marty Staggs wrote: |
You CLEARLY do not know what you are talking about.
On average, your motor will have 10 PSI per 1000 RPM's minimum. Yes the bypasses start to bleed off pressure but they dont stop it at 28PSI. |
maybe you should be more specific on what YOU speak of, instead of adding qualifiers afterwards.... the OP did not specify if his engine was a stocker or a staggs spankin mountain motor....
no need to insult my, actually, very "tight" engine because you are in your own world.... you wanna say you need a big oil pump, fine....but don't be a prick... _________________
[email protected] wrote: |
With a show of hands, who has built over 1000 engines in the last 25 years? Anyone? |
GEX has. Just sayin |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
turbo_bob Samba Member

Joined: February 22, 2005 Posts: 293 Location: Victorville CA
|
Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 11:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
Thats why one needs a 30mm pump when using the squirters, you need the extra volume to supply the proper oil pressure. _________________ All the QUICK & FAST VW STREET cars are TURBOED!!! |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
turbo_bob Samba Member

Joined: February 22, 2005 Posts: 293 Location: Victorville CA
|
Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 11:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
Marty Staggs wrote: |
Yes the bypasses start to bleed off pressure but they dont stop it at 28PSI.  |
If using the stock springs & pistons it is around 50 PSI to protect the stock oil cooler. _________________ All the QUICK & FAST VW STREET cars are TURBOED!!! |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Marty Staggs Samba Member

Joined: October 18, 2003 Posts: 357 Location: So Cal
|
Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 11:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
bugninva wrote: |
Marty Staggs wrote: |
Bruce wrote: |
Anyone know at what pressure does the stock pressure relief valve dump excess pressure to the sump? I think it is below 45psi, rendering the squirters useless. |
You CLEARLY do not know what you are talking about.
On average, your motor will have 10 PSI per 1000 RPM's minimum. Yes the bypasses start to bleed off pressure but they dont stop it at 28PSI.  |
while this is true marty alot of engines don't see the 45psi that the squirters would need to operate when the oil is at operating temperature....mine doesn't....tops out at about 42psi hot....so the relief valve is bleeding off enough to keep the squirters from working in an engine like mine...(and most i've had) |
And YOU obviously dont have a motor that could or would get any benefit from them. Your motor also sounds a bit "loose" to me.
The only people that would benefit have a performance engine with larger oil pumps that also turn more RPM's.
This would be a modification for a "higher end" type motor and not the typical daily driver or budget project. _________________ Marty |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
nsracing Samba Member

Joined: November 16, 2003 Posts: 9743 Location: NOVA
|
Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 7:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The only way to find out is to make a test and see how much pressure it will take to see the squirt.
All that is needed is a nice piece of tubing and machined to the size of the ID of the main bearings and pump some oil and push some pressure that you can read. Just watch the quality of the squirt and there.
The size of the hole will determine if any pressure drop will be neglegible.
This is a simple drilling operation...nothing more.
I like the hole up high so it will make its trajectory to about middle of the back of the piston. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
|