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pedro sainz
Samba Member
Joined: July 26, 2005
Posts: 1442
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 Posted: Fri Mar 05, 2021 5:42 pm Post subject: Re: How to Rebuilt a Early type 3 Fuel Pump |
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| pedro sainz wrote: |
this is testing my work of a NOS diaphragm 4.2 
Wolfsburg West have a NEW Diaphragm redesign Available for $21.95
I bought it and test it
https://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=113127141WW
left New Wolfsburg W
mid type 3 Original
right Old Wolfsburg W
left New WW right old WW
So Bye Bye Bye $80 hard to find NOS type 3 diaphragm
and remember to fallow step by step to restore it your self
thanks Josh Lucas for keeping your eyes OPEN and share this find |
Here’s the link again 👍
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Erik G
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2002
Posts: 13546
Location: Tejas!
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| Posted: Fri Mar 05, 2021 12:33 pm Post subject: Re: How to Rebuilt a Early type 3 Fuel Pump |
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| mdege wrote: |
Some years have passed again.
Are those WW T3 diaphragms still available? The WW shop only offers the choice between bug and bus. Have they discontinued T3 parts all together? |
I would ask Pedro. |
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mdege
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Joined: January 16, 2018
Posts: 1058
Location: Niederkruechten, Germany
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Adriel Rowley
Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2006
Posts: 4823
Location: Mesa, Arizona
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| Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 12:00 pm Post subject: Re: How to Rebuilt a Early type 3 Fuel Pump |
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| Bobnotch wrote: |
| Adriel Rowley wrote: |
| notchboy wrote: |
| Prime it. See if that gets it going. |
Jason, appreciate the help.
Tried using my finger on the lever and running the starter a couple minutes, no fuel coming.
I cleared the line back in early Fall, however trying to blow through, seemed it plugged up again. Jack said heat (he is really busy so limited on amount of help), so heated the front part of the line glowing red. Then, used an emergency brake cable on both ends, chucked in a drill, plus acetone. Seems better, though the damn thing still not bringing up fuel, either fingering the pump or running the starter almost a minute (after the starter got stuck on started growling and notice if run more than about thirty seconds it come on).
What about using the FI pump to try and push fluid through the line? Not permanent, just see if can clear and prime, to be 100 percent certain it is the fuel pump despite when fingering the pump produces one bar.
Hopefully this behavior doesn't continue as then have to put in an electric priming pump, based on the mechanical fuel pump has only a small amount of draw. Be better than replacing the hard fuel line myself.
Honestly have not been this frustrated in a really long time. What really gets me is how something so damn simple can cost two fucking days. |
Before you added fuel to the system, did you run a piece of wire thru the fuel line from front to back in the pan? Or the short steel line that goes thru the front tin? Just asking as it might have some dirt caught in the line from being parked for so long. |
I didn't know adding fuel be an issue, so didn't mention, only thought needed to mention ran a cable through. The wire was before adding fuel as when Dad and I tried starting Ruby in about 2004 or 2005, wasn't getting fuel to the fuel pump and what was told to do by the assistant auto shop teacher. The cable was after adding fuel.
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Please consider I am Autistic, so I process information differently and still working on social skills. Thanks.
Dad's 1964 Beetle purchased September 1968.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9252810#9252810
1971 Sunroof Squareback with Fuel Injection
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=219811&highlight=squareback+rejuvenation |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 23375
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 7:22 am Post subject: Re: How to Rebuilt a Early type 3 Fuel Pump |
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| Adriel Rowley wrote: |
| notchboy wrote: |
| Prime it. See if that gets it going. |
Jason, appreciate the help.
Tried using my finger on the lever and running the starter a couple minutes, no fuel coming.
I cleared the line back in early Fall, however trying to blow through, seemed it plugged up again. Jack said heat (he is really busy so limited on amount of help), so heated the front part of the line glowing red. Then, used an emergency brake cable on both ends, chucked in a drill, plus acetone. Seems better, though the damn thing still not bringing up fuel, either fingering the pump or running the starter almost a minute (after the starter got stuck on started growling and notice if run more than about thirty seconds it come on).
What about using the FI pump to try and push fluid through the line? Not permanent, just see if can clear and prime, to be 100 percent certain it is the fuel pump despite when fingering the pump produces one bar.
Hopefully this behavior doesn't continue as then have to put in an electric priming pump, based on the mechanical fuel pump has only a small amount of draw. Be better than replacing the hard fuel line myself.
Honestly have not been this frustrated in a really long time. What really gets me is how something so damn simple can cost two fucking days. |
Before you added fuel to the system, did you run a piece of wire thru the fuel line from front to back in the pan? Or the short steel line that goes thru the front tin? Just asking as it might have some dirt caught in the line from being parked for so long.
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71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
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| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Adriel Rowley
Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2006
Posts: 4823
Location: Mesa, Arizona
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| Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2020 7:34 pm Post subject: Re: How to Rebuilt a Early type 3 Fuel Pump |
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| notchboy wrote: |
| Prime it. See if that gets it going. |
Jason, appreciate the help.
Tried using my finger on the lever and running the starter a couple minutes, no fuel coming.
I cleared the line back in early Fall, however trying to blow through, seemed it plugged up again. Jack said heat (he is really busy so limited on amount of help), so heated the front part of the line glowing red. Then, used an emergency brake cable on both ends, chucked in a drill, plus acetone. Seems better, though the damn thing still not bringing up fuel, either fingering the pump or running the starter almost a minute (after the starter got stuck on started growling and notice if run more than about thirty seconds it come on).
What about using the FI pump to try and push fluid through the line? Not permanent, just see if can clear and prime, to be 100 percent certain it is the fuel pump despite when fingering the pump produces one bar.
Hopefully this behavior doesn't continue as then have to put in an electric priming pump, based on the mechanical fuel pump has only a small amount of draw. Be better than replacing the hard fuel line myself.
Honestly have not been this frustrated in a really long time. What really gets me is how something so damn simple can cost two fucking days.
_________________
Please consider I am Autistic, so I process information differently and still working on social skills. Thanks.
Dad's 1964 Beetle purchased September 1968.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9252810#9252810
1971 Sunroof Squareback with Fuel Injection
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=219811&highlight=squareback+rejuvenation |
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notchboy
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Joined: April 27, 2002
Posts: 22659
Location: Escondido CA
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Adriel Rowley
Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2006
Posts: 4823
Location: Mesa, Arizona
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Adriel Rowley
Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2006
Posts: 4823
Location: Mesa, Arizona
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| Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:41 pm Post subject: Re: Is my rod long enough? |
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| wcfvw69 wrote: |
| Adriel Rowley wrote: |
| seems 14mm was a margin of safety, correct? |
If you're referring to the preload of 14mm, it was for the early dome tops. They had a different rocker installed than the 1963ish and later dome top and square top fuel pumps. |
Bill, well, now has a preload of 13,5mm. Gasket 0,48mm, so 13,02mm of travel. Did notice the top of the rod was not parallel to the spacer, the other side was about 13,25mm. I tend to over think, so really fighting it. Too late and too exausted to be safe to see if works.
And thanks to you, it is in.
_________________
Please consider I am Autistic, so I process information differently and still working on social skills. Thanks.
Dad's 1964 Beetle purchased September 1968.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9252810#9252810
1971 Sunroof Squareback with Fuel Injection
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=219811&highlight=squareback+rejuvenation |
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wcfvw69
Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 13680
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:28 pm Post subject: Re: Is my rod long enough? |
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| Adriel Rowley wrote: |
| seems 14mm was a margin of safety, correct? |
If you're referring to the preload of 14mm, it was for the early dome tops. They had a different rocker installed than the 1963ish and later dome top and square top fuel pumps.
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Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
40+ years of VW repair, and VW parts and vehicle restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
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Adriel Rowley
Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2006
Posts: 4823
Location: Mesa, Arizona
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| Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:42 pm Post subject: Re: Is my rod long enough? |
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| wcfvw69 wrote: |
| Adriel Rowley wrote: |
My understanding was the fuel pump rod should have a maximum travel of 14mm, is this correct?
I was not getting 14mm in order to preload the fuel pump diaphragm, instead 13,30mm. Checked the pushrod length: 107,84mm.
Can I machine off 0,20mm off the spacer to correct for wear?
Thanks in advance.  |
A 108mm pushrod installed in an engine should stick up 13mm above the bakelite/plastic fuel pump stand at its highest travel point. So, pull the fuel pump. Shove the 108mm pushrod in. Rotate the engine until the pushrod moves up to its highest travel spot. Measure how much the pushrod is sticking up above the fuel pump stand.
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Much appreciated!
I thought said was 13,3mm.
Just finished a snack, going to go back and install the diaphragm, seems 14mm was a margin of safety, correct?
_________________
Please consider I am Autistic, so I process information differently and still working on social skills. Thanks.
Dad's 1964 Beetle purchased September 1968.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9252810#9252810
1971 Sunroof Squareback with Fuel Injection
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=219811&highlight=squareback+rejuvenation |
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wcfvw69
Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 13680
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:27 pm Post subject: Re: Is my rod long enough? |
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| Adriel Rowley wrote: |
My understanding was the fuel pump rod should have a maximum travel of 14mm, is this correct?
I was not getting 14mm in order to preload the fuel pump diaphragm, instead 13,30mm. Checked the pushrod length: 107,84mm.
Can I machine off 0,20mm off the spacer to correct for wear?
Thanks in advance. |
A 108mm pushrod installed in an engine should stick up 13mm above the bakelite/plastic fuel pump stand at its highest travel point. So, pull the fuel pump. Shove the 108mm pushrod in. Rotate the engine until the pushrod moves up to its highest travel spot. Measure how much the pushrod is sticking up above the fuel pump stand.
_________________
Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
40+ years of VW repair, and VW parts and vehicle restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
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Adriel Rowley
Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2006
Posts: 4823
Location: Mesa, Arizona
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Adriel Rowley
Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2006
Posts: 4823
Location: Mesa, Arizona
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wcfvw69
Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 13680
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:32 pm Post subject: Re: How to Rebuilt a Early type 3 Fuel Pump |
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Some of the rebuild kits from the past few years had the rubber vs. bakelite outlet valve/washer. I experimented with one once and installed it. I couldn't get the the valve to seal and removed it and threw it out. There was clearly a reason Pierburg used the hard bakelite ones.
Good to hear WW said they'd address that with their vendor. Did the retainer of the bakelite piece fit in the pump housing? In the past, it was too small.
The reed valve setting is important. It can't have any gaps in it or it won't sell when the pump is pushing the fuel out.
_________________
Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
40+ years of VW repair, and VW parts and vehicle restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
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OKType3Tim 
Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2011
Posts: 285
Location: Northeast Oklahoma
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| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:15 am Post subject: Re: How to Rebuilt a Early type 3 Fuel Pump |
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Reported the issues to WW. They are going back to mfg to figure out what has gone astray. And refunded my $.
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OKType3Tim
Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2011
Posts: 285
Location: Northeast Oklahoma
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| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:16 am Post subject: Re: How to Rebuilt a Early type 3 Fuel Pump |
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| wcfvw69 wrote: |
Personally, I'd be more suspicious of the valves in the top portion. Did you change those? The reed valve or the bakelite one?
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On my original rebuild, I didn't change those. The local kit didn't have a replacement so I left it alone. I think this is also part of the problem I experienced. This time, I took the valve (that should be bakelite) out.
The WW kit had a bakelite valve. It is cut to small and actually falls through the hole.
The valve I took out is a piece of rubber. (In the center of this picture) And now that I have it out and examined, I know that some previous re-builder fabricated this from...."Something".
When I took the pump apart this weekend and dumped the residual gasoline out, the rubber had a "swollen" look to it. It has since dried out.
At this point, I've gathered a bakelite valve from another unit in my bone-yard.
I didn't mess with the reed valve.
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pedro sainz
Samba Member
Joined: July 26, 2005
Posts: 1442
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:20 pm Post subject: Re: How to Rebuilt a Early type 3 Fuel Pump |
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Have plenty NOS 100% Correct Type 3
If anyone need some 😁
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68 T34 1600 Automatic
62 T34 Cabriolet Prototype
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wcfvw69
Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 13680
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:40 pm Post subject: Re: How to Rebuilt a Early type 3 Fuel Pump |
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I have a NOS Pierburg kit in my stash. I'll try to remember to get some measurements from it.
Personally, I'd be more suspicious of the valves in the top portion. Did you change those? The reed valve or the bakelite one?
I recently rebuilt a square top pump. I removed both valves like I've done hundreds of times. The were flattened, seated, etc.. I installed a new WW kit with their previous upper diaphragm. I could NOT get this pump to prime or pump, nada. I took it apart, installed an NOS top diaphragm and spring and still nothing. I could NOT figure out why it wouldn't prime. The valves were perfect.
I have a pile of used cores. I took the top off one, put it on this pump body and it immediately primed. 
I still have no idea what's wrong with that top portion. I'd read in a VW service manual that if a pump stopped working like this to replace the top portion of the pump.
_________________
Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
40+ years of VW repair, and VW parts and vehicle restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
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OKType3Tim
Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2011
Posts: 285
Location: Northeast Oklahoma
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:13 pm Post subject: Re: How to Rebuilt a Early type 3 Fuel Pump |
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During the recent Type3 Invasion, I had fuel pump problems with a Pierburg Squaretop type fuel pump that I felt I had rebuilt per the advice and instructions given. The tank was full, it was late afternoon and 92-96 degrees out. After a 20 mile run, during which the engine gradually sputtered more and more; the car gave up completely. A full tank of fuel. Plenty of fuel to the pump inlet. But absolutely nothing would exit the pump outlet. The immediate problem was solved by switching to a new style fuel pump. Back home, I tore down the pump expecting to find some catastrophic failure. But....nothing obvious. So, I started digging deeper. The rebuild was done with a kit from the local provider. I ordered a WW kit. Comparing them this evening...it became interesting. Given that the pump had plenty of fuel, but wouldn't pump I wondered if the fault was in the fuel cut off valve. The cut off valve seals against this port in the upper chamber of the pump:
The port has an OD of 6mm.
Here are three upper diaphragms. Left to Right: Just obtained WW unit, local provider kit, still flexible diaphragm from the spare parts box.
I took measurements on the section of the diaphragm that seals against the port:
WW unit: ID is 6.99mm. Very different arrangement on the way the seal is crimped in.
Local kit: ID is 7.16mm
Old unit: ID is 8.20mm
Also the WW unit will not seal since the outer flange diameter is larger than the diameter of the upper chamber.
Also notice that the springs are all different heights, and made with different diameter wire. The WW unit is clearly the strongest spring, and the local kit has the weakest spring.
My question is: Does any of this matter? What does an original look like and measure out to? Is this the source of the pump getting into a condition where it would not let fuel to the outlet?
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