221(5/6/7) - The 9 Passenger Info Thread FAQ

[busdaddy]

[70bus]

A big part of the problem - in my opinion - is that VW printed a set of parts lists, printed some supplements, then later printed the whole thing over again... BUT deleted things no longer available, or substituted current stock. Probably issued new pages to go in the big binder. Then they went to fiche and it got really bad!

I have a number of splitty parts manuals, and some are dated as late as 1968; they seem to list some parts that the dealers can GET rather than what was original. Superseding the Superseded lists, as it were. Those of you who read the split forums know of my obsession with this, and it preventing me from getting the actual original part number to my 12v-option flasher relay!

Look at the fiche for bays up in the Technical section - it shows mostly later bay parts, as they were what was current. The sliding door has one version; could you get a different one from dealer? Probably, but it isn't on the fiche.

I'm going to dig in my manuals for an early 70s parts book and see what it has noted for a side panel, and if a later one shows the C-shape version. Since the 2/68 version in my above post was printed in August 71, I am willing to bet the flat lozenge-shaped one is correct to 72 and perhaps 73 (the one I bought says it came from a 73 bus). I see the C-shape one shows up in gallery under the 2/3 seats but not always clear the year. When was the champagne edition? One in one of those, and colors seem to match it in TCash images...


Anyways, this is an argument for having as many printed manuals as you can stuff in your house!
_________________
Craig K
70 Neunsitzer
65 Pritschenwagen
"If Von Dutch was alive, he'd walk in there with a pistol and shoot these people." - Robert Williams

Raul the 65 singlecab

Karl the 70 nine-seater

[busdaddy]

Thanks for stirring up a new mystery, now I'm more confused than previously, well done!

If any of us finds some definitive proof of what fits what year please post it so we can all sleep better at night.
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.

Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

Слава Україні!

[70bus]

Busdaddy, I see your seat image and raise my bet. From 2/68 parts manual

_________________
Craig K
70 Neunsitzer
65 Pritschenwagen
"If Von Dutch was alive, he'd walk in there with a pistol and shoot these people." - Robert Williams

Raul the 65 singlecab

Karl the 70 nine-seater

[70bus]

At this point I am tempted to pull a Graham Chapman and mutter “oh, intercourse the side panel!”

I bought a flat-style side panel, i’ma paint it grey, and slap it in. If I ever see the other kind maybe I’ll buy it as well- I can go to shows and swap them out when no one is looking, and listen to how many “well, THATS wrong” I get for each one! :)
_________________
Craig K
70 Neunsitzer
65 Pritschenwagen
"If Von Dutch was alive, he'd walk in there with a pistol and shoot these people." - Robert Williams

Raul the 65 singlecab

Karl the 70 nine-seater

[cdennisg]

[70bus]

Well, it doesn’t show any side panel on the 2/3 seat!
_________________
Craig K
70 Neunsitzer
65 Pritschenwagen
"If Von Dutch was alive, he'd walk in there with a pistol and shoot these people." - Robert Williams

Raul the 65 singlecab

Karl the 70 nine-seater

[mikewire]

Very cool! You guys are awesome, it's fun to learn more...the more I learn the more questions I end up having lol.
_________________
-Mike

@countdowngarage
@bigskyeuro

1972 VW Kombi 9 Passenger Deluxe 221(5) w/ 2.0L F.I. VWAC swap
1965 VW Beetle Deluxe Bahama Blue

[cdennisg]

^^^ Interesting. Shows the wraparound style of kick panel that we seem to have figured as a "late bay" spec, yet no headrests on those seats. And photos previous clearly show early bay seats with the flat style kick panel. Who's to say what is right, what is correct, and what was delivered when?
_________________
Confusious say it takes it takes two wipes to know you need three, but it takes three wipes to know it only needed two.

[busdaddy]

_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.

Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

Слава Україні!

[mikewire]

Cool, the brochures show it! However, I'm pretty certain VW has put things in brochures that don't always apply to the market where the option will be available. English, with imperial measurements.

And, I'm still waiting to see a middle seat in an actual 9 passenger owners Bus...and as unique and rare as these Buses are, it still seems like someone out there in the wild should have a middle bench + panel.

Also I'm wondering if was a standard part, or optional and/or part of a different M-code.

Interesting as well that part# 221 883 892 A from the previous post gave me no real results when searching in Google.

I found two of those panels in the classifieds, but both ship from the Netherlands, which would indicate to me they are a Euro market item most likely.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2741928

NOS! https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2741929
_________________
-Mike

@countdowngarage
@bigskyeuro

1972 VW Kombi 9 Passenger Deluxe 221(5) w/ 2.0L F.I. VWAC swap
1965 VW Beetle Deluxe Bahama Blue

[70bus]

Oh, you said English and I took it mean UK, not English-language.
_________________
Craig K
70 Neunsitzer
65 Pritschenwagen
"If Von Dutch was alive, he'd walk in there with a pistol and shoot these people." - Robert Williams

Raul the 65 singlecab

Karl the 70 nine-seater

[cdennisg]

[70bus]

Is it on right? Front is sloping differently to other ones in pics. Or is it one of the C shaped ones with a flare TCash pictured, but an early one? Plus, as mentioned up post, not US!

- insert 'very mad ' emoji here -
_________________
Craig K
70 Neunsitzer
65 Pritschenwagen
"If Von Dutch was alive, he'd walk in there with a pistol and shoot these people." - Robert Williams

Raul the 65 singlecab

Karl the 70 nine-seater

[cdennisg]

1971 English brochure. Clearly a 9 passenger, full width middle seat with a kick panel.

_________________
Confusious say it takes it takes two wipes to know you need three, but it takes three wipes to know it only needed two.

[cdennisg]

Another photo from the 1969 English brochure. I'm sure it's the same bus as previously posted, just a different angle. Also shows the 9 passenger seating arrangement in the line drawings at the bottom.

_________________
Confusious say it takes it takes two wipes to know you need three, but it takes three wipes to know it only needed two.

[70bus]

Some mystery cleared up: the panel from TCash is a LATE bus panel per his description:

NOS Late Bus middle seat side kick panel. Part# 221 883 892 A

et al

The ones I am talking about were definitely on EARLY bays

that's from the 69 English-language brochure, and the specs list top speed in MPH and not KMH, so I assume applicable to US market and not England or Canada. Does look like Euro bumper trim in a few pics tho!

I would guess that yes, 9-seaters in US COULD come with a full-width seat... but still unclear unless there's a brochure showing a full-width FRONT seat in one as well. I will say that the 'Deluxe' brochure for 70 US buses mentions '9 passengers' as an option, with no indication the trim package would be different.

EDIT - PS: I love that there are still things to hunt/argue about/never know the answer on a decades-old car made in the millions.
_________________
Craig K
70 Neunsitzer
65 Pritschenwagen
"If Von Dutch was alive, he'd walk in there with a pistol and shoot these people." - Robert Williams

Raul the 65 singlecab

Karl the 70 nine-seater

[mikewire]

No question, there are middle benches that have a side panel...yes the panel does exist, it's held on by clips. Excellent work as usual to all the Sherlocks out there.

Now, for the proper application...remember this thread is specifically for 9 passenger Busses (not 8, not 7, not Westy etc.). None of the pictures or references are 9 passenger...they are 8 passenger.

So let's answer this question...what year(s) did the US spec 9 Passenger 221(5/6/7) Bus come with a middle bench side panel?? I still hold that I don't know of any that came with, prove me wrong.

I don't want to see any more French advertisements either
_________________
-Mike

@countdowngarage
@bigskyeuro

1972 VW Kombi 9 Passenger Deluxe 221(5) w/ 2.0L F.I. VWAC swap
1965 VW Beetle Deluxe Bahama Blue

[70bus]

OK, now I am confuseth.

The side panels you are discussing in your last post you have identified as "3/4 bench" side panels. But the images from 68 - 70 VW brochures above clearly show that version (or one closely-shaped) and not the three-dimensional version with the kickout from TCash's photo. Tcash version has a little wrap to the right, and the head of the clip that would grab the fron of the seat leg. The ones in the brochures are flat - possible that we are not seeing them wrap around the back of the seat, which would make the TCash photo a RHD version!

Do we know what years the Tcash version went on? Did VW photograph the brochures with pre-production parts, or just use the 3/4 seat panel?
_________________
Craig K
70 Neunsitzer
65 Pritschenwagen
"If Von Dutch was alive, he'd walk in there with a pistol and shoot these people." - Robert Williams

Raul the 65 singlecab

Karl the 70 nine-seater

[busdaddy]