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Paulbeard
Samba Member
Joined: July 10, 2015
Posts: 2611
Location: Seattle
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 Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 3:14 pm Post subject: Re: Power Generator? vs Battery & Inverter? |
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| SSWesty wrote: |
I have the ability to do the above with a 40amp battery under the drivers seat without supplementing with solar. The real question is how many amps do you intend to draw. I run a small 12 volt harbor freight compressor to air up our tires after being aired down for off-road travels. This is very different than running a small pancake compressor that might be used on a construction job site. It would be best to know what amp draw you need since that will influence the system design. |
If everyone who considered solar started here ☝🏻 the net increase in sanity worldwide would be measurable.
_________________
Currently -> Frida: 87 Tizian Red (mostly) Vanagon GL Westfalia w/ 2.0L ABA conversion
Formerly -> Steward of a 73 Super Beetle (Beater) and 67 Beetle 1300 (Little Max) both names by POs
— dhaavers |
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SSWesty
Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2008
Posts: 735
Location: Bellevue
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| Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 2:18 pm Post subject: Re: Power Generator? vs Battery & Inverter? |
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| Quote: |
My goals are:
Run 12v cig accessories/usb items
Use standard house plugs 120v?
Run a small air compressor
Aux lights
Radio |
I have the ability to do the above with a 40amp battery under the drivers seat without supplementing with solar. The real question is how many amps do you intend to draw. I run a small 12 volt harbor freight compressor to air up our tires after being aired down for off-road travels. This is very different than running a small pancake compressor that might be used on a construction job site. It would be best to know what amp draw you need since that will influence the system design. |
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WestyWanter
Samba Member
Joined: February 15, 2017
Posts: 459
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 12:25 pm Post subject: Re: Power Generator? vs Battery & Inverter? |
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I've been exploring the idea of building a DIY generator with some 18650 batteries because I like the idea of a modular set up to take in an out of my van (86 weekender) being the limited cabinet space. I'm curious how some people have compared them to using the aux set up?
My goals are:
Run 12v cig accessories/usb items
Use standard house plugs 120v?
Run a small air compressor
Aux lights
Radio
I'm looking at modular because I can charge it at home prior to leaving, also with an isolator charge it with alternator when van is running, and finally charge via solar....
Can someone point me in the right direction please |
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dlb154
Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2006
Posts: 359
Location: Reno, NV
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| Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 7:05 pm Post subject: Re: Power Generator? vs Battery & Inverter? |
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I'm curious if anyone has followed Jay Brown's parts list to make a power generator (either solar charged or shore power charged)?
I'm looking at doing this as a portable power system rather than modifying my Westfalia.
Since I drive mine frequently, I don't like the idea of carrying a battery and solar panels all the time. Having it all portable allows move versatility and use around home too.
Looking for someone's build experience to glean from.
Thanks! |
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MattBenson
Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2015
Posts: 36
Location: Orlando
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| Posted: Thu May 21, 2015 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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Super clean! I am currently trying to design my own auxiliary power supply for my van, which will include a solar panel and controller at a later date. Right now I am just focused on an auxiliary battery and an inverter to safely charge my Mac stuff. I'm not super savvy when it comes to electric wiring so there is quite a steep learning curve. But thank God for the Samba and for threads like yours!
Just curious, and this might seem like a dumb question, but what is the battery charger for? Are you not just charging your aux. battery via the alternator with an isolator/combiner connected to the starter battery? |
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matt94gt
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2014
Posts: 245
Location: Victoria BC, Canada
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| Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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| thatvwbusguy wrote: |
Looks great!
Be sure to put some good threadlock on the set screws that hold the large cables into the battery terminals. I have had several of these set screws loosen over time and allow the cables to get loose to the point that they were backing out of the terminals. A 0AWG power cable can do some pretty serious spontaneous welding if it finds its way to ground.
Very impressive installation!!! |
Good call I'll do that. For what it is, it's simple minus the 10 runs to the marine store for connectors, wire etc.
If anyone has questions in the future don't hesitate to PM me. I'll post an update on battery usage etc after I do a road trip.
_________________
72' Sunroof Bus - Kansas Beige
http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-21257.htm
Build thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7257521 |
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thatvwbusguy
Samba Member
Joined: April 18, 2007
Posts: 1712
Location: Newmarket, New Hampshire
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| Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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Looks great!
Be sure to put some good threadlock on the set screws that hold the large cables into the battery terminals. I have had several of these set screws loosen over time and allow the cables to get loose to the point that they were backing out of the terminals. A 0AWG power cable can do some pretty serious spontaneous welding if it finds its way to ground.
Very impressive installation!!!
_________________
Jay Brown
'85 Zetec Westfalia
Newmarket, NH
If you want others to be happy, practice compassion.
If you want to be happy, practice compassion. |
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matt94gt
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2014
Posts: 245
Location: Victoria BC, Canada
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matt94gt
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2014
Posts: 245
Location: Victoria BC, Canada
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thatvwbusguy
Samba Member
Joined: April 18, 2007
Posts: 1712
Location: Newmarket, New Hampshire
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| Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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AGU fuse will be fine.
_________________
Jay Brown
'85 Zetec Westfalia
Newmarket, NH
If you want others to be happy, practice compassion.
If you want to be happy, practice compassion. |
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matt94gt
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2014
Posts: 245
Location: Victoria BC, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 9:42 am Post subject: |
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| thatvwbusguy wrote: |
You should be fine with the 8AWG from the battery to the fuse block. Did you install a fuse on the wire as close to the battery positive post as possible? This fuse would protect from the possibility of overloading the fuse new block. A MIDI fuse holder with a 60A fuse should be good for this.
The 10AWG is going to be overkill for most of your accessories, but it can't hurt anything. You power ports should never have anything larger than a 15A fuse installed to protect them. |
No I did not, ill pick one up! Thanks. Assume a AGU fuse holder would work? I have one already.
_________________
72' Sunroof Bus - Kansas Beige
http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-21257.htm
Build thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7257521 |
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thatvwbusguy
Samba Member
Joined: April 18, 2007
Posts: 1712
Location: Newmarket, New Hampshire
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| Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 12:55 am Post subject: |
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You should be fine with the 8AWG from the battery to the fuse block. Did you install a fuse on the wire as close to the battery positive post as possible? This fuse would protect from the possibility of overloading the fuse new block. A MIDI fuse holder with a 60A fuse should be good for this.
The 10AWG is going to be overkill for most of your accessories, but it can't hurt anything. You power ports should never have anything larger than a 15A fuse installed to protect them.
_________________
Jay Brown
'85 Zetec Westfalia
Newmarket, NH
If you want others to be happy, practice compassion.
If you want to be happy, practice compassion. |
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matt94gt
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2014
Posts: 245
Location: Victoria BC, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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| thatvwbusguy wrote: |
The term "speaker wire" can mean a lot of different things.
It is not uncommon for car audio "speaker wire" to be copper covered aluminum (CCA) wire as opposed to 100% copper (sometime labeled OFC for "oxygen free copper). Since aluminum is cheaper than copper, you can buy heavier gauge wire in CCA at a much lower cost than high quality copper wire. Many people in the car audio scene preach the "bigger is better" philosophy, with no regard for the material that their wires are made of. In general terms, a pure copper wire can safely carry the same amount of current as a CCA wire one gauge larger. In other words:
10AWG CCA = 12AWG Copper
8AWG CCA = 10AWG Copper
6AWG CCA = 8AWG Copper
Whenever I purchase wire from a new supplier, I measure the diameter of the wire and compare it to American Wire Gauge specs. It is very common for "car audio wire" to have a significantly undersized conductor and a very thick insulation jacket to make it look more substantial than it really is.
Other important considerations for power wires for automotive use include:
Abrasion resistance of insulating jacket
Maximum operating temperature of the insulating jacket
Resistance to oils and solvents found in the automotive environment
The supply wire to your fuse block needs to be large enough to carry the total load of the circuits powered from the fuse block. To determine this, you need to add up the wattage of all of the accessories you will be using and divide that number by 12 (Amps = Watts / Volts). Alternatively, you can wire the fuse block to support the maximum rated capacity, which is 100A in this case. The minimum recommended wire size for 100A would be 6AWG of high quality copper wire.
Be sure to add a fuse or circuit breaker as close to the battery positive post as possible. A protective covering like corrugated plastic loom is also a good idea on wires that will be carrying a lot of current.
The wires from the fuse block to your accessories should be sized according to an ampacity chart as well. In general, I use the following as rough guidelines:
0-5A - 18AWG
5-10A - 16AWG
10-15A - 14AWG
15-20A - 12AWG
20-30A - 10AWG
If you decide to purchase one of the Renogy 100W solar kits, be sure to get one with a negative ground charge controller. The lower priced kits come with a positive ground controller that is aimed more at small stand alone battery systems than automotive/RV use. |
So I ended up going by west marine, as they seemed like the best place locally to get decent wire.
Got this stuff:
http://www.westmarine.com/buy/ancor-marine--duplex-wire-by-the-foot--P009_274_003_002
Went with 8GA from the battery to the Blue Seas Box
And 10GA from the box to my accessory ports, LEDs etc.
I calculated the loads that I would have at most, and slightly over rated them:
Laptop chargers 4A x 2 = 8A
ARB Fridge = 2A
Cell charge = 2A
LED = 3A
Total is 15A and I doubt all of these will be running at the same time, probably never actually. So I think ill be just fine with 8GA.
But Im still a bit confused when sizing the fuses for inside the blue sea box when there connected to the blue seas 12v ports. Should I size them to the largest device I will be pulling into that specific port, then just label them (laptop, phone etc?). I assume this is correct.
Thanks again for all your help. Im almost done!
_________________
72' Sunroof Bus - Kansas Beige
http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-21257.htm
Build thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7257521 |
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matt94gt
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2014
Posts: 245
Location: Victoria BC, Canada
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32989
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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kamzcab86
Samba Moderator
Joined: July 26, 2008
Posts: 8514
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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| matt94gt wrote: |
So your saying for my ARB fridge/cooler not to run it constantly with a Blue Seas power port? That was my plan, but I could snip off the 12V plug on the ARB and just hardwire it to my battery directly. I was just hoping to keep the plug so I can use it in other vehicles when I dont have the bus going.
Or I could get sort of adapter such as below to hardwire it: |
Or hardwire it for a secure connection in the van and get a second 12V power cord for use in other cars.
http://www.sierraexpeditions.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=15610
_________________
~Kamz 
1986 Cabriolet: www.Cabby-Info.com
 1990 Vanagon Westfalia: Old Blue's Blog
2016 Golf GTI S
"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance." - 孔子 |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32989
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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matt94gt
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2014
Posts: 245
Location: Victoria BC, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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| thatvwbusguy wrote: |
I would definitely add one to the dash if you have had any trouble with the stock socket.
If I was counting on an electric cooler to keep my food safe, I would probably go for something more secure than the friction fit of a 12V socket connection. A set of Anderson Power Poles inside a splash boot seems like a great solution: http://www.powerwerx.com/powerpole-accessories/moisture-proof-splash-boot.html
If you have no choice but to use the dash socket to power something critical, the Blue Sea Systems 1011 socket and 1010 plug are the best you can get. |
So your saying for my ARB fridge/cooler not to run it constantly with a Blue Seas power port? That was my plan, but I could snip off the 12V plug on the ARB and just hardwire it to my battery directly. I was just hoping to keep the plug so I can use it in other vehicles when I dont have the bus going.
Or I could get sort of adapter such as below to hardwire it:
_________________
72' Sunroof Bus - Kansas Beige
http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-21257.htm
Build thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7257521 |
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thatvwbusguy
Samba Member
Joined: April 18, 2007
Posts: 1712
Location: Newmarket, New Hampshire
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| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 8:16 am Post subject: |
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I would definitely add one to the dash if you have had any trouble with the stock socket.
If I was counting on an electric cooler to keep my food safe, I would probably go for something more secure than the friction fit of a 12V socket connection. A set of Anderson Power Poles inside a splash boot seems like a great solution: http://www.powerwerx.com/powerpole-accessories/moisture-proof-splash-boot.html
If you have no choice but to use the dash socket to power something critical, the Blue Sea Systems 1011 socket and 1010 plug are the best you can get.
_________________
Jay Brown
'85 Zetec Westfalia
Newmarket, NH
If you want others to be happy, practice compassion.
If you want to be happy, practice compassion. |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32989
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 5:45 am Post subject: |
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| thatvwbusguy wrote: |
If you calculate a 10A draw, just go with a 10A fuse and see how it goes. Fuses are cheap and easy to replace. As long as the wire to the consumer handle 15A, there is no reason that you can't use a 15A fuse if the 10A blows.
12V sockets are usually rated at 10A or 15A. Never exceed the rating on these sockets, as they tend to run hot when run at the upper end of the rated capacity. The Blue Sea Systems 1011 socket is the best I have found and the only one I recommend. |
You recommend the BluenSea Systems 1011 dash plug........
For 12 volt units that you cannot afford to have lose power to such as an electric Cooler..... Do you recommend switching the factory plug for the Blue Sea 1010 male plug?
These apparently twist lock together so vehicle (boat) vibration does not cause a disconnect.
Dave
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Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos
Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473
Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert |
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