Using '58-'64 brake backing plates?

[Doktor Brezel]

Hi guys,

Does anyone know whether it's possible to fit later brake backing plates ('58-'64) on a '51 split window? And will original split brake drums and brake shoes fit the '58-'64 backing plates?

Thank you very much!
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Jan '51 Split // 11C // Medium Brown

[eurodub]

from what i can tell later backing plates can fit. (did that to my split) but the split drums do not work with later backing plates, just with theirs. there is a difference in diameter there .
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1960 1200 model 117 deluxe ragtop
1976 MK1 Golf

[johan_l]

I had almost the same question a while ago, the answer I got (you may search to get the full answer with pics) was that newer backing plates do fit, but all need to be changed, drums and shoes... Otherwise - oval backing plates and shoes (if I remember correctly) will fit split drums or other way around. I will do this op on my split...

There is some additional info on where e-brake cable enters - but it can be solved bu turning the backing plates from one side to the other...
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Johan, Sweden
1960 Karmann-Ghia coupé
1957 Oval window
Bastard Split window <-- Translate

[johan_l]

[Doktor Brezel]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the quick answers! Just switching the backing plates would have been an easy way to save $400,- on brake cylinders alone. Too bad it isn't going to work.

[joebug1956]

I had put 58 brakes on my 51, I recently converted to disc's, and have all the backing plates, drums, adjusters, and shoes if you need them. Everything is usable, not pretty but useable! I also have some of my OG split brake parts if you are interested. Just PM me if you need any of it!

[johan_l]

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=383357
never got answer, but think I found it in another thread...

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=378863
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=294759
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=188647

know there was one even better thread somewhere, but didnt find it right now...

I think the pic in the latest link is from a VW catalouge from a german company, I have the catalouge and there is more of the brake stuff there, i think I've seen more of the pics on the samba. I have the catalouge but I'm not the one put out these pics...
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Johan, Sweden
1960 Karmann-Ghia coupé
1957 Oval window
Bastard Split window <-- Translate

[HeSa]

[johan_l]

To sum up this;

Is below correct?

- Shoes and backing plate need to match, i.e split shoes fits only split backing plate and vice versa

- linings for shoes are readily available and same for split and oval

- Drums for split and oval can be changed (ie the same)

- 2-bolt oval cylinders fits splits backing plates

- 58-64 brakes fits if "all" is exchanged

- One should look into that brake cylinder diameter is smaller in rear



I have not yet decided if to go for 64 brakes on my split. I have split parts for all but new linings and cylinders but I don't see the downside of having newer (64) brakes unless everything else is 100% OG. And my split will not be...
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Johan, Sweden
1960 Karmann-Ghia coupé
1957 Oval window
Bastard Split window <-- Translate

[johan_l]

I'm now started to mount 58-64 brakes. Setup is crashbox gearbox and lever dampers, but I use the 100mm longer cables used from mid 51 and on, ie cables go in from the rear in the top.

Now I have a couple of questions;

1) The 58 brakes have different bearing retainers, if I change BOTH the retainer and the shield, will the spacing then be OK or will there be a gap?

2) The oil drip lip on the retainer will point upwards if the shield is mounted upside down (and if cable to enter the same way as on split brakes the shield must be mounted upside down) - will it be OK to let cable enter from behind and the lower part of shield, ie same as 58-64 shields normally mounted.

Anyone done this operation with 100% success?

I have done some reading and this is how I think it is;

up to mid 1951 / lever dampers, cable enters from the front;

mid 1951 and on; When the telescopic shock absorbers were introduced the brake cable extended 100 mm and cable enters from rear

Up to 1955 cables are adjusted in the front;

To switch to the telescopic dampers on a car with the lever dampers you can change the position (L/R) of the shields in order to thus obtain the hand brake to go into the right direction. Shields identical and cylinders with 4 screws.

These cylinders are available with three different diameters (depending on how old the car is);
Wheel Cylinder, front 19.05 mm diameter

Wheel cylinder, rear, to chassis 167 889, 19.05 mm diameter
Wheel cylinder, rear, from chassis 167 890, 15.87 mm diameter
Wheel cylinder, rear, from chassis 397 023, 17.46 mm diameter

shoes are the same up to 1953 when 2 screw cylinders were introduced, shoes and cylinders need to match? Same shoes and shields to 1957.

Split/oval brakes;

58-64 setup look like;

The paper gasket (often 2 supplied) should on 58 brakes be used between retainer and shield. No gasket between axle casting and shield.

All parts were assembled and painted AFTER assembly. Ie no paint between retainers, shields and castings.

From a thread bearing retainers;

[PULPO]

Hello, i also have a '57 that i switched (left to right) the backing plates thinking they were backwards. E break used to come in from the rear now enters from the front of the backing plate. Is there any problems that can come from this? Break failure? Does anybody have a pic of how the e break cable enters the baking plate and how it is secured?? Thanks..

[L378]