3 Rib trans input shaft

Konrad1 · Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:47 pm Post subject: 3 Rib trans input shaft

I'm in the process of building my 1st Rail that has a 1600 DP and 3 Rib bus trans. I seperated the trans from the motor today and noticed that the transaxle input shaft will slide out of transaxle. Is this normal? If not, what holds the input shaft in and how do I get to it? What little I drove the Rail before completely tearing it down for sandblasting and paint, the trans shifted good and stayed in gear with no unusual noises. Could this have caused any damage?

Bill271 · Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 5:44 pm Post subject:

No it wont cause damage but you need to measure and make sure the input isnt too long, if it is it will destroy the engine

Konrad1 · Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 6:05 pm Post subject:

What measurements do I need to take? So it is ok that the the input shaft moves out of transaxle? The shaft doesn't look worn on motor side so would this be an idication that it is correct length? The only other thing that concerns me now is that the the motor that was in rail had .035 crank endplay measured at alternator pulley with a dial indicator. The crank would move in and out freely by hand before I seperated transaxle. Is it possible that the input shaft may have in some way contributed to this?

Dougy Dee · Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 6:05 pm Post subject:

The input shaft is screwed together using a 7mm stud.
There is a coupler that slips over the inboard splines locking the shafts together. There is also a circlip that keeps the coupler from sliding back letting everything unscrew.

You'll need to drain the trans and remove the bellhousing to re-assemble everything. Space is tight but you can do it in the vehicle. You'll need to locate a new circlip as the one you have may be missing in action. If you line up the windows in the diff properly it will make sliding the coupler back in place much easier....

Good luck

[email protected] · Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 6:07 pm Post subject:

If the input shaft will physically slide in, and out of the trans, then yes, it is a problem. The input shaft has a small section of threaded rod that screws it into the end of the mainshaft in the trans. The two ends of the shafts are splined. There is then a coupler that slides over the splines that holds them from spinning apart. There is a small circle clip that holds the coupler from sliding back, and forth on the two shafts, and keeps it from allowing the two shafts to come apart. If you can take the input shaft out of the trans, the circle clip has come off at one point in time, and the threaded rod has either broken, or has come unscrewed from the end of the input shaft. For your 3 rib, take off the back bellhousing and take a look. The end of the input shaft, or end of the mainshaft should have the threaded rod section, and the coupler will be splined inside with teeth on one end because it works with the reverse gear. There should be a small circle clip on the input shaft to hold the coupler in place. See what parts may, or maynot be there.

Edit; Tree'd by Dougy Dee! LOL

Bill271 · Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 6:09 pm Post subject:

First you need a to measure a type 1 trans and find out how far the input is out of the bell housing face. If you have .035 end play you definitly have probs with the eng i would pull the flywheel and see if the rear main bearing is moving in the case before you worry about the trans. I'll measure one and let you know, but if i remember right we cut 3/8 inch off the 002 input

Konrad1 · Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 6:26 pm Post subject:

Bill271 · Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 6:35 pm Post subject:

No prob.

[email protected] · Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 6:56 pm Post subject:

You shouldn't have to cut anything off of an 002 input shaft to work with a type 1 engine. A 091 input shaft is longer than an 002 shaft, and if you're going to use an 002 bellhousing on an 091 trans, then you would need to cut some off of the input shaft.

Konrad1 · Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 7:36 pm Post subject:

[quote="[email protected]"]If the input shaft will physically slide in, and out of the trans, then yes, it is a problem. The input shaft has a small section of threaded rod that screws it into the end of the mainshaft in the trans. The two ends of the shafts are splined. There is then a coupler that slides over the splines that holds them from spinning apart. There is a small circle clip that holds the coupler from sliding back, and forth on the two shafts, and keeps it from allowing the two shafts to come apart. If you can take the input shaft out of the trans, the circle clip has come off at one point in time, and the threaded rod has either broken, or has come unscrewed from the end of the input shaft. For your 3 rib, take off the back bellhousing and take a look. The end of the input shaft, or end of the mainshaft should have the threaded rod section, and the coupler will be splined inside with teeth on one end because it works with the reverse gear. There should be a small circle clip on the input shaft to hold the coupler in place. See what parts may, or maynot be there.

I see the 7 MM stud in the attached link. Should the 2 shafts be screwed together by hand or is there a certain torque that needs to be applied?

http://www.longenterprises.com/diagram_folder/diag10L_irs_type2_transmission.htm

jsturtlebuggy · Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 8:43 pm Post subject:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Here are a few pictures of the the pieces of mainshaft.
When you screw the two shafts together, tighten them together then back off a couple of splines. (rear shaft will have some side to side movement. This is OK. If they are tight together 7mm stud will break.)
Then slide coupler over two shafts (may have wiggle some to get splines align)
Put snap ring into groove.
Any 002 Bus (1972 and later) transmission that was used with the type IV engine will have a longer mainshaft were it rides in pilot bearing.
It will need to be cut off aprrox 5/16in (8mm).
Last pic show difference in length.
_________________
Joseph
Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
Elrod Motorsports
Motion Tire Motorsports
Having fun with Dune Buggies since 1970
Into Volkswagens since 1960

[email protected] · Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 8:59 pm Post subject:

jsturtlebuggy, you are the man, pictures, and all! I need to save this in my favorites! Very Happy

Konrad1 · Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:07 am Post subject:

Thanks jsturtlebuggy! I now have an understanding of how it is assembled and should be able to tackle it.

zzhayward · Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:15 am Post subject:

when you twist the shafts together on the center 7 mm stud and before you slip the coupling over, you need to leave a little slack, so the input shaft and main shaft can wiggle just a little. Otherwise the 7mm stud will eventually break in two. Back off a spline and then slip the coupling over

Konrad1 · Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:42 pm Post subject:

I pulled the bell housing off tonight and all parts are there and in good condition. It appears that the 7 MM stud came unscrewed at some point. I also need to shorten the shaft as shown in picture. I plan on using blue loctite on stud for reassembly. Thanks to all for the help!

Bill271 · Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:47 pm Post subject:

Danggit i thought i was close at 3/8s oh well. If your input hasnt been shortened you have probs, pull the flywheel and see how much damage was done

jsturtlebuggy · Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:26 pm Post subject:

What I have always done is to thread stud into the front part of the mainshaft until the unthreaded part of the stud is even with the end, and then screw the other part of the mainshaft onto it. There is a chance of it threading itself into front mainshaft if not careful.
Using Loctite to hold stud in place in forward shaft maybe a good idea to keep it from happening. I would not Loctite both ends, will make it difficult to remove in the future.
Shortening it to 5/16 or 3/8in it is only a 1/16in differences. Make sure to taper the end so it will slide into pilot bearing easier.
Now whether you need to shorten it can be depend on what crankshaft you are using. Years ago I was able to install a stock 1600cc engine without cutting the shaft and it did not hit.
Just makes it simpler to cut shaft if transmission is not going to be used with a type IV engine in the future.
_________________
Joseph
Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
Elrod Motorsports
Motion Tire Motorsports
Having fun with Dune Buggies since 1970
Into Volkswagens since 1960

AndyBees · Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2015 6:22 pm Post subject:

gears · Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2015 6:37 pm Post subject:

There's a very good reason that you should pick up a new joining screw from the VW dealer .. cost: about $1

Here's the new style ..

AndyBees · Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 4:38 am Post subject:

Gears, thanks for the reply and links.

Obviously failure or issues with the little screw are fairly rare. I've been driving, building, etc., VWs since 1973, this is the first time I've had issues with the little screw.

A couple of weeks ago, I pulled my tranny (upgraded DK bolted to ALH TDI) to find a roar issue. The pilot shaft come out as the tranny was removed. Oddly, the circlip was laying in the bottom of the housing. Fortunately, there was no damage to either shaft, slider, etc., but the threads don't look good on the screw.

As it turned out, the roar was coming from the right rear Castle Nut. It was a bit loose. I installed a temporary stock DK tranny and still had the roar. That's when I discovered the loose Castle Nut.

I plan to install an after marker Pilot Shaft that is machined to accept the larger hole of a TDI Clutch Disk. Thus now is the time to go with a new screw.............. I emailed the closest VW dealer !

Thanks!
_________________
'84 Vanagon Tin-top, ALH TDI, two trips to Alaska, 2014 & 16. 1989 Tin-top unmolested.
1983 Air-cool, 225k miles, 180k miles mine, seven trips to Alaska from 1986 thru 2003. 1975 Bay hopeful.


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