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63 Squareback Found?
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MonT3
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:05 pm    Post subject: 63 Squareback Found? Reply with quote

For the past few weeks I had been contemplating getting this square. I had pulled some parts off of it and sold them without realizing that at some point I was going pick this car up. My initial intent was to part this car out but after reading other threads and looking over pics or other members starting point, I re-thought the parting out part adn more on saving the car. Today I made a trip to get a some parts and with trailer in tow, pick up the square at the same time. Last time I was out, I failed to get the VIN number off this car. This time, my first stop was to get the VIN and try to determine the age of this car. I knew Squares weren't made until 1963 but the VIN number stumped me as I had to call my friend for help. I checked the body VIN against the pan, 0187041. I didn't see any number on the engine case but it's dirty. It's got dual port heads on it and as it was pointed out if this is an early square, it would have had a side single draft carb (I think that's what it's called) setup. Maybe the PO changed the heads out? Not sure but will be looking for the VIN in the AM.

The car has been repainted as the original color seems to be sea Blue. Not usre about the red though, maybe factory primer? The underside of the hood is the same color as the other areas inside the car. I'll take the shop vac to it as well as put the pieces I took off of it back on. I feel bad I sold off a few pieces but that's ok, lesson learned. I'm not ready to deal with this square just yet as I'm working on the 67 so It's going into storage. I'll post more pics but with the ones I have here, A few for now...
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I'd appreciate any info you can pass along regarding the age, etc.
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Tram
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

VIN indicates a very early May, 1963 build date. This would have been a single side draft 1500 car. The dual carb cars didn't start until 1964, and Type 3s got a bigger engine compartment to accommodate the twin carb engine, so don't be surprised to find some hackery in there.

Dual port didn't start till 1967, so it's likely got a later engine.
No Sea Blue until 1964 model year, so it was likely a Gulf Blue car. Interior would have been salt 'n' pepper.

No beak trim, no beltline trim, high mounted side markers, bullet turn sigs and reflectors painted body color are all pre '64 attributes. taillight lenses should be the flat ones. Post 1963 "S" and "Deluxe" cars got the common ones you always see.

The '1500' on the hatch indicates North American delivery, as they weren't allowed to call them 'Variant' because of the Plymouth Valiant in North America. It was likely delivered in Canada, which tells me the original taillight lenses were flat, all red.

Wheels look correct! Beginning in '64, they were "smoothies" until 4 lug with front disc in '66.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 6:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sure looks like a 63 to me...

Nice find!

Very Happy
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Erik G
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nice save, glad you did so
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice save - early squares are hard to find.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glad to see you bought that '63. Can't wait to see some more photos. Congrats on the project. You can never own just one squareback Cool
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's pretty much covered above so:
Yes, it's a '63.
Yes, Gulf Blue.
Yes, it should have a single side-draft motor.
The engine # should be in the top center of the engine.

Quote:
I knew Squares weren't made until 1963

1962 but any 62-63 is uncommon.

I'm interested in interior photos please.
Post a photo of the engine too, we can provide some engine feedback.

It looks pretty good, how are the floorpans?
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MonT3
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This morning my son was pushing me out of bed to get outside to take a look at "his" new car (he's 5yrs old). So I drug myself out of bed, showered and got outside took some more pics. The engine is a universal and as the pics show is missing some pieces to it. Would have been nice to have had the mathcing case but after being told of the dual port head, I didn;t think it may be there but was hoping it caould have been.

Tram, thanks for the info on this car. It'll come in handy when I start to take inventory of what it'll take aside from alot of work to get it back on the road.

If this engine was universal and a dual port, would it have been converted over to 12V? I didn't check the relays on the car yet but was wondering about that. Either way, would be nice to bring it back as a stock square. I've attached more pics or rust, holes,and dirt. Enjoy...
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Here's some hackery. THis Sapphire I was in the car with a long threaded stud with a bent/folded up license plate piece at the bottom to hold it together
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I'll post some interior pics soon.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

why do you say its a universal case? I can see the number in the top of the case, indicating it's a type 3 case

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Erik G wrote:
why do you say its a universal case? I can see the number in the top of the case, indicating it's a type 3 case

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This was next to where the fuel pump and base of the oil breather are
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Would have been nice to have had that number match. I'm making this assumption it's universal based off the number as it doesn't match the body and pan VIN.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's an early 1969 fuel injected engine.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the number on the case starts with a U at the beginning then it is a universal case and of course not original to the car.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yooyenkoo wrote:
If the number on the case starts with a U at the beginning then it is a universal case and of course not original to the car.


No, the U case indicated fuel injection.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice find! Glad to hear you're thinking of bringing it back to stock. Looks like a fun project. Smile

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For reference, engine number likely would have been in the range of 0 212 222 to 0 227 033, although an earlier engine number than the first one wouldn't be unusual, as they always built more engines than cars and I've seen engines in cars that were produced a month or more earlier than the car they went in.

Get a "birth certificate" on this bitch!! Smile
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tram wrote:
For reference, engine number likely would have been in the range of 0 212 222 to 0 227 033, although an earlier engine number than the first one wouldn't be unusual, as they always built more engines than cars and I've seen engines in cars that were produced a month or more earlier than the car they went in.

Get a "birth certificate" on this bitch!! Smile


Has anyone thought of running a thread on case numbers? HAHAAA! It would be intersting to read about someone owning an engine that someone else had the car with matching VIN. HAAHA! I'll get one ordered. Need to read the thread on getting one.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I remember seeing a "case exchange" thread in the Split Bus forums years ago. A case exchange thread might be a good idea here.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are some interior pics. Not much to see.
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These seat belts look incomplete. There's the inside tunnel piece and a piece that's bolted to the lower pillar (sp?)
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My guess is these gauges may not be original, or at least one. Any thoughts or insight? Not sure about the toggle and push button. I guess since it didn't have the ignition, maybe power and push-button start?
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Notice the seat belt going down the pillar
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The're a little damage from the dent on the apron. Nothing too bad that can't be corrected
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Not sure if these were part of the cars original tool kit...
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rear seat material is the original.

Euro cars got a two point shoulder belt with no lap belt, and I think those were acceptable in Canada also. USA mandated lap belts only until 1968- then 3 point shoulder/lap belts with high back seats.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have the lower door panel but dammit, I sold off the others. That's ok, lesson learned. Same goes for the push-button console. Embarassed d'oh!
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